Franklin Half Comparison

I’d appreciate some opinions from people who understand something about how PCGS grades Franklins.

I’ve had quite a number of Franklins graded by PCGS in the last year. Since my coins have been lying fallow for the better part of 40 years I started the process with very rudimentary knowledge about modern grading, what FBL means, etc. Now I’m wiser. Most of the grades… I understand. But there are a few head scratchers that I could use some help on.

Here are two coins, 1959-P. I’m showing the obverses only, as the reverses are pretty much the same, FBL, virtually free of marks. Both have been graded by PCGS and I’ll show the grades after I get some opinions, and then I have a follow-up question.

What I would like to know is, which of the two coins do believe should have the higher grade? The grades received are somewhat different. I think that the photos give you a pretty good sense of the marks on the coins (the reed marks on the cheek of the first coin being small and virtually invisible in hand without magnification). Luster is harder to get a sense of, in photos. Both coins have full mint luster with strong cartwheel, the luster on the second coin being nice but a bit softer than the first.

Now comes the hard part - getting the photos to post:

 

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I choose the second one.

 

I'll wait to see the reverse images.

 

I'll go with the first just to make it a ballgame but if these really got different grades it only goes to show they don't know what the hell they're doing from one grader to the next.

 

@WillGK
Can't give an opinion of grade based just on the obverse.
Both sides of the coins need to be judged.

 

I would choose the second mainly for prime focal area concerns. The second coin has a very clean face, which is where everyone looks first at. The first has those marks on the cheeks, which is somewhat distracting comparing the two.

 

@Pickin and Grinin he said back is the same for purposes here.

I'll vote #1 too, they're both nice, almost went 2 but the field in front of face, the top of head, and the bottom of bust seem more of a problem/distraction than the cheeks.

 

Number 2 in my opinion. I just feel it is "cleaner" than number one.

 

My "opinion" they graded the first one higher than the second one.
and If I personally had to choose of the two, I'd choose the 2nd one though. it's a tight race either way, someone has to be top of the class so clearly someone will be bottom of the class, but all still graduate.
I could see them coming in 1 grade apart i.e. high end MS62, Low end MS63 to the graders. This is just an example of how it happens, I'm not grading your coins.

 

I here ya, The luster on the first one definitely is better than the second, and is going to be the determining factor between gem and a premium gem grade. With out seeing the die state of the reverse, It is going to be hard to help with the grade of the coin as a whole.

 

Good point. I was ignoring luster due to it being photographs and therefore just commenting on the hits I see. Differences in luster in hand could easily affect a grade as well.

 

I chose the second. The hairline is cleaner, sharp curls, and less hits on the chin and cheek bone. As others have mentioned, luster can greatly influence grades from one mint state to the other. Additionally, I would be curious to the reverse as that would determine the dies utilized.

 

I didn’t intend this to be a guess the grade. I wanted to see if people are as confused as I am. The fact that opinions have split right down the middle between #1 and #2 confirms it. So I’m going to skip high res pics of reverses for now, because posting photos is something that I’m not good at - gives me heartburn.

I actually thought that #2 was a nicer coin, albeit with a bit less luster. And I’ve got a couple of other 59Ps that are similar, one in particular looks better to me than either #1 or #2, and a fourth is close.

I submitted these coins when I knew little about how professional graders see coins. I thought that the coins were at least MS65FBL and hopefully one or more might come back MS66FBL. A 65 vs a 66 grade is important in a 59P FBL, up to an order of magnitude difference in price - huge.

And how did the graders see my 59P coins? Coin #1 was graded MS65+FBL. All others were graded MS65FBL. I was surprised and disappointed because I thought that the others were at least equal, likely better.

I was sending some coins in to CAC, so I included #1. I was disappointed in the other 59P grades and didn’t bother to include them. Coin #1 got a green sticker from CAC.

Pickin says it’s luster that tips the scales on #1 an #2 - makes sense because #1 got the kewpie doll and it has the most luster of the 59s.

But then there is this: I posted a coin here a while back - 1952 Franklin - when I was trying to understand what qualifies as FBL and what doesn’t. Lehigh told me this coin was at least 66FBL and maybe 67FBL… depending on luster!… and that I should submit it to PCGS. Lehigh nailed it, it came back MS66FBL. I sent it off to CAC. They gave it a green sticker. And here is the punch line - it has less luster than any of the 4 1959s!

Below are pictures of the 1952. I’m showing the reverse of the 1952 on this one so that people can see that there’s a light toning on the coin, especially on the reverse. Beneath this toning is intact, original luster - but soft, even softer than the MS65 59Ps. (Sorry about the last couple of pictures, but I don’t have my good camera setup at hand.)

Now I’ve explained my confusion: If luster is the thing that sets #1 apart from the other 59s, and the other 59s have as much or more luster than the 52, and the 52 got a 66 with a CAC, then the grading here has to be something other than luster. What else is there? Strike. Strike is plenty good on all, to support gem grades. Surface preservation. But surface preservation on #1 looks no better and possibly less good than the other 59s that I have. Curb appeal. I think all of them are simply white coins that look nice in their own way.

So, what is it that professional graders are looking for in Franklins? I’m stumped, and it’s a big question because I have lots of Franklins. I’d like to re-submit some of the 59s as well as other years I haven’t mentioned, either cracked out or having PCGS crack them out. But if I don’t know what the graders want to see I’m just wasting my time and money. What are they looking at, anyway?!

Well, here goes nothin’ on posting photos, lol…

 

Following to see what others say. I’ve always had a hard time grading Franklins. Not as much detail to go on as some other series.

 

This is like asking if I'd rather have some apple pie or some pumpkin pie.



Yes, please

 

I like #2 as the face looks a little more mark-free. Both are extremely nice pieces. Also the exact grade is hard to determine from one pix apiece.

It may come down to whether there is a lack of frost on the jaw-line of #2 or not.

As far as numerical grade goes I like ms-64 top piece and at least ms-65 for the lower one.

Of course seeing the breast feathers on the tail of the eagle rev, would help.

 

I have to go with #1 jmo

 

That is one very nice Franklin.