I got fed up with the obvious fakes being advertised on Facebook. American Silver Eagles, $5 apiece, monster boxes of 1894 $20 gold pieces all graded ms70 for $1000, etc. Reporting them never seemed to make any difference. So, I started placing orders. Pay via PayPal Credit & challenge the charges whenever I can document fraud. Pretty straightforward when the selling site claims to be shipping from the US & provides tracking from China (as happens about half the time). They're out the cost of the item, plus shipping, and I have the latest examples of what to watch out for. Most of the fakes have been laughably bad. But some are disturbingly good. Most fail one or more of the following tests: magnetic when they shouldn't be, weight is wrong, diameter is wrong, thickness is wrong. None of fakes I've received seem to have been coined out of silver or gold (despite heavy plating present on some). Despite ordering coins in NGC & PCGS slabs, I have yet to receive a fake slab. (They mostly just bait and switch those, it seems.) Here was today's shipment (each came individually packaged in little plastic frames that stretch 2 sheets of plastic to enclose the coin but can easily be opened or shut). Heck, those are probably worth something, although I doubt they're a safe plastic for long term storage of a real coin. The 1916 Mercs were a *lot* thicker than they should have been. About 38mm thick for 20 = almost 2mm thick apiece (instead of the real 1.35mm). That also worked out to them being significantly overweight: 20 x 2.5g should be 50g, not 68g. I included a picture with 5 of the fakes alongside 5 real dimes. Only the poorest copy (the shallow relief super underweight 2019 Liberty) was magnetic.
Fat a$$ dimes for sure, cartoonish looking to the max!! Crazy bad counterfeits! Your report is appreciated!
Unfortunately, while you get your money back and keep the counterfeits, the sellers keep the money they get (after all, they are criminals) from PayPal etc., and just switch their name/webpage to other names and webpages. The credit card company has to make up the loss, so they charge higher interest rates to their customers. So, the average citizen is the one who ends up paying for this.
How many people actually purchase these unironically I wonder what percent of their income are from collectors just seeing how bad the fakes are?
I did this a couple times years ago when my Paypal was attached to a defunct credit card, didn't pay, reported the items after winning. I decided it wasn't worth tilting at windmills.
Curious which ones are "disturbingly good"? Most of these easily obtained ones aren't so deceptive to most experienced hobbyists, but to the newer ones can be a real problem. The ones that are good enough to slip into genuine TPG holders are the ones that keep me up at night! Great post @GeorgeM ; good information.
The couple I purchased through an internet selling venue had both (Chinese) sellers refund my $ and asked me to keep the coin...
Great idea. Think I'll do it too. If enough people did this maybe it would have somewhat of an impact.
A couple of the Washington Carver half dollar fakes (mildly circulated and apparently acid aged) wouldn't have gotten a second glance (although their color was off on closer inspection). Weight, size, non-magnetic, all were close enough to right that if they hadn't come along with, oh, 20 x 1915 expo "gold" slugs, I might not have immediately known they were fake. Some of the heavily circulated 1830's dimes and pennies are dangerous too. Clearly copied from something higher grade and then rock tumbled to create unique wear patterns & obfuscate any casting marks. Also encapsulated Australian bullion silver rounds - they've gotten the details dangerously accurate, and who would normally open the capsules to check reeding & weight (the capsule material was a bit lighter than the mint products, compensating for the coins being about 5% heavy)?
I have a few of the later dated large cents and half cents; these are good enough to fool less experienced collectors for sure. I have actually written a few Coin Week articles on these.
PayPal usually requires accounts to be active for a while before allowing transfers out, & has measures in place to claw back money in the event of chargebacks.
I've wondered whether your strategy actually costs the fakers anything, so it would be good to know for sure. I'm picturing that they get a statement showing x dollars in and y dollars rejected, and if it's one out of a hundred rejected they just go "oh well" even though somebody also got to keep their worthless fakes.
Duped on an eBay purchase of two fake Siler Eagles: Got to keep them so decided to upload some pictures. 1st four pic's are of 2 fake Type-2 American Eagles, last two pic's are of an authentic Type 2 Eagle to compare. Bought on eBay in late December 2022 for $32 each. Pic on seller's site looked good. I was a bit concerned as it was a site with women's makeup stuff & not many sales. I was in a hurry to go to work but typed into google; "Has China created any fake type two silver eagles". Nothing showed up so bought them. It was very clear they were fakes when they arrived. Went back to eBay recent purchases & store name was there but otherwise a blank page & said china at the bottom. Pic 1; Note the goofy face & exaggerated material design around stars. Pic 2; Thin areas on rims. Pic 3; One has more prominent strike (on both sides). Pic four; Wider numbers on date. Pic's 5 & 6 are of a real Type 2 Eagle. At the end of this, PayPal came to the rescue & reimbursed me at full price. A top class company!
I have no idea why some of you keep buying from these fakers just to prove a point. You're keeping them in business, especially if PayPal has to refund your money and not the seller. The best way to put these guys out of business IS TO STOP BUYING FROM THEM.
It is a double edged sword in my pinion; I have purchased some of the latest ones simply to be able to measure and analyze them to see how deceptive they really are, and use them in educational displays at coin shows I attend.