Authenticating and Grading from pictures - is it possible?

• Is it possible to authenticate a coin from a very good photo? <lets assume for the sake of this discussion the coin weights and measures the same as a reference coin>
  • yes/no, why and please list caveats (ex: photo must be x resolution) ?

• Is it possible to grade a coin from a very good photo?
  • yes/no, why and please list caveats (ex: photo must be x resolution) ?

Extra credit:

• Is it possible to determine if a coin is 'cleaned' from a very good photo?
  • yes/no, why and please list caveats (ex: photo must be x resolution) ?

The coin below may be a reference. Top picture (black background) is a coin someone might come upon... The coin below is a reference from the PCGS site.

 

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Yes, Yes, Yes, and sometimes. All that is necessary to authenticate a coin is to know what the genuine should look like. So with the example you posted, anyone with a good eye for detail can see the difference between the two images. As a C/F becomes more deceptive, then the knowledge, experience with the issue, and quality of the image becomes important. So, without a comparison piece for the coin above, the image alone would give most of us a 50/50 chance of a correct guess. Most posters asking questions about authenticity do not provide images magnified enough to be useful.

As for grading, a lot can be hidden in an image. Determining the amount of design detail remaining from an image can be done but determining the originality is more difficult. My record playing guess the grade from an image is dismal

 

Thank you for the great reply. If you had multiple pictures from multiple angles could you grade the coin?

can you tell if a coin has been cleaned from a photo?

 

Grading a coin from photo is exceptionally difficult. Many people don't realize this but I recently posted about a buffalo nickel. The wide range in opinion really made me realize this. From MS67 down to AU55 and even details grade off my photos.

There are so many variables inside photographs of coins, lighting, angle, alterations. editing etc.

I never grade a coin by photo, only to gather general opinion. Its always a risk especially on auctions or ebay. The coin 9 times out of 10 looks different in hand than photos, whether for better or for worse.

authentication, I think is easier.

 

It can be done.. with very very clear pictures and proper lighting.. however, pictures seldom show the whole story so in hand grading will always superior to picture grading

 

I get the point about light/angle and that it is always better 'in hand'... but with the buffalo nickel.. were all of those people qualified to provide an answer? what I'm wondering is if a qualified grading specialist can grade a coin accurately from a series of well taken, high resolution, photographs.

 

They would almost always prefer it in hand. Too much can happen with a photo is kind of my point.

Photos open a can of worms, now you can certainly grab an estimate, or approximate grade, I believe even a professional grader can only give an estimate until it is in hand.

 

No.

 

that makes sense. makes me wonder who is buying the raw coins from these third rate auction sites... if you look at some of these photos (or these, and these) it's difficult to tell if the coin has been altered... if the photo has been altered... if the coin has been cleaned... if the coin is a 58 or a 62... seems like the customers that frequent these online raw coin auctions are being taken by con artists and that can't be great for the hobby.

 

dedrikski, posted: "Grading a coin from photo is exceptionally difficult. [VERY TRUE in most cases. However, check out magnified images at Heritage and PCGS.] Many people don't realize this but I recently posted about a buffalo nickel. The wide range in opinion really made me realize this. From MS67 down to AU55 and even details grade off my photos. [Much of this is due to the very wide skill level of the graders.]

There are so many variables inside photographs of coins, lighting, angle, alterations. editing etc. [Very True]

I never grade a coin by photo, only to gather general opinion. Its always a risk especially on auctions or ebay. The coin 9 times out of 10 looks different in hand than photos, whether for better or for worse.

authentication, I think is easier."

 

Grade this Lincoln cent reverse:




This is a great example of a good image provided by our friends at PCGS FOR FREE! No tricks and DON'T OVERTHINK IT!

 

I just highjacked the OP.

 

• Fine (F-12, 15): The coin will have medium wear, with quite a few details visible and some high spots obviously worn away. As a rule of thumb, for seated coins, Barber coins, Liberty Nickels, and Indian Head Cents, all seven letters of LIBERTY will be visible, although some may be very weak.

 

bernard55, posted: "Fine (F-12, 15): The coin will have medium wear, with quite a few details visible and some high spots obviously worn away. As a rule of thumb, for seated coins, Barber coins, Liberty Nickels, and Indian Head Cents, all seven letters of LIBERTY will be visible, although some may be very weak."

So, a coin can be graded correctly by a knowledgeable grader using a great image.

 

Can you determine if this coin has been cleaned?

I figured I would give you guys a difficult one tonight to determine

 

My personal opinion. Authentication: I don't think it is possible to absolutely sure from an image but if the image is good it should be possible to authenticate with high confidence 98+%. It is much easier to condemn as a fake from an image.

Grading: Good image, circulated coins Yes. MS coins No. You can't tip/rotate the coin to let the light plat over the high points checking for very slight wear. So if you can't guarantee is is MS you can't guarantee any given MS grade. I won't grade any coin higher than AU from an image.

Cleaned: Sometimes. If the cleaning is obvious sure you can. But if the cleaning only shows as some hairlines you have the same problem as with MS grading. You need to be able to tip and rotate the coin under a good light to be sure whether or not there are hairines, and you can't do that with an image.

 

No, this coin is not cleaned. IT HAS BEEN BUFFED TO DEATH! The shine from the "luster" is the giveaway.

 

Great info. Thank you.

 

does the stark difference between the stars give away the cleaning?

 

lol funny did we even have to go to the stars. Ok I have my opinion about this one let's see what you guys think grade, cleaning, etc .