NY Regulatory Countermark

Hi Guys!


I´ve recently bought this coin and I have been researching about it. It´s a regulatory (I think that´s the word) NY countermark by John Burger. It´s similar in sense to the Brasher countermarks, which are a little scarcer than this one.

The stylized B is not a problem, but I am still intrigued by the TP (B ?) hallmark in the back of the plug. Does anyone have any idea of what it is?







(the coin is on the way, and due to Brazilian inefficient postal services, it might arrive with some considerable delay, though send in "ultra" express mail - should have arrived yesterday :headbang


All the best!


Al Paashaus

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Al:
Very neat, I'll check and see if I can find anything.

What metal is that?

 

The host is a gold 6400 reis from Brazil, Rio Mint, 1757, clipped to reach the weight of about 13 grams, the equivalent by the end of the 18th century to 8 dollars.

 

I checked Breen, no mention.

Also: Rulau, but he says the countermark is JB.

Nothing yet on the TP on the reverse.

 

looking again:

The mark is JB.

 

You mean mine is JB?

As I mentioned, I still don´t have it here with me, but it´s just a matter of a couple of days until it arrives. From the pictures I see a clear "T" and I am still doubtfull on the second letter, if it is a "P" or a "B".

If it´s "TB", the idea of Thomas Burger, John´s son, which was also a silversmith in NY, would fit. I am still not very sure on this "thesis" but I have found these Thomas Burger Hallmarks online:

 

And thanks, Treashunt, for all important information. I do appreciate it, as my library on US coins is limited (only two The Numismatist, hahahaha!)

 

I wish I could help you... but I think it's a really interesting piece.

 

Looking at Rulau's Standard Catalogue of US Tokens 1700-1900 it seems like the JB listed, I imagine it is a stylized initials (J & B close together).

As for the TP v TB, more to follow as soon as I have time.

Veddy interesting.

 

No Thomas Burger listed in Rulau.

 

Very nice!!

 

I have found something (I do love this coin, it has made go through a lot of reseach!)

TP stands for Thomas Pons, from Boston, a regulator from 1789-1804.

I could not find another exemple for TP but I have managed to get Pons´s another mark and the letter types are very similar to the ones on my coin.

 

This is an interesting piece, I'll try to look at some more references.

Good luck!

Okay, I have to ask, did you cherrypick this?

or was it listed with mention of the countermarks?



I am also dieing to ask: How much was it?

 

Totally Cherrypicked! But it seems to fit better than Thomas Burger. When I discovered the name Thomas Pons, I just had to google it with some word combinations and then I found some more info.

The price? I am totally a fan of "buy the book before the coin". I have wrote a testimony of this numismatic mantra for the E-sylum as I also collect books on Brazilian Numismatics (more than 800 volumes and over a 1000 titles only on this theme). While I was searching the net for Brazilian coins, I stumbled over this little baby for a very kind price (delayed X-mas miracle). The price was ... a secret : ) (hope you don´t mind!)



All the best!


Al Paashaus

 

ah, nice pick up.

I also collect books, in case you don't know.


altho 800 books on Brazil, that is excellent.

 

Yep, more than 800 volumes, over 1000 different titles.

I miss just a few rare books out-of-commerce, though I have found many others that were supposedly out-of-commerce, some cheap, many very expensive. I also have documents, as mint records from the 18th and 19th century, manuscripts, letters and postcards addressed to Julius Meili (I have all his works).

It´s nice to have good solid references whenever you need. That´s what makes the difference between a good collector and a collector!

 

or a collector/accumulator vs a numismatist.

 

Does anyone have any idea of how much it would be to have it NGC certified?

 

Being that it's only one coin. The have better deals on 5 or more gold coins. And the fact that I assume it's worth more then $300 and less then $3,000. You could go standard which costs an NGC dealer $28 plus shipping both ways. If you want it faster the express is $48 plus shipping for a 48 hour turnaround. This of course is the NGC dealer price... some dealers charge a few bucks extra to make a little extra loot. The regular member prices would be more. If you have a local dealer who is an NGC certified dealer send it through them and If not I'd be happy to help.

 

Hi Matt!


Well, I am in Brazil now and it might take a while until I pay a visit to the US, but I like your idea of having it sent to a dealer. I buy coins from an US dealer who will be glad to help.

Well, I think it would be a little more expensive, as the coin estimate ranges between US$ 20-25K.


All the best,


Al Paashaus