I bought this 1893 Isabella Commemorative Coin ( 24,191 survived) several years ago online and paid about $100 In AU-Details Grade. Just getting back to it and wonder, how did I do? Also, how do you explain Cleaned from Improperly cleaned or is there a difference?Using just Loupes, How do they tell it's even cleaned? How much do you think a coin in this condition would fetch at auction? Thanks for your help !
Nice coin @SensibleSal66. Let's swap. I'll give you what I'm getting from my SS, and you give me that! Wish i could help with the actual questions, which I'll never be able to do, but you know I'm here for morel support.
In pictures one and two hairlines (fine scratches) are clearly visible. The difference of cleaning vs improperly (also harshly) cleaned: no visible trace of cleaning is cleaned (acceptable), improper/harsh cleaning leaves a tell such as hairlines.
IMO you are currently even. I think you could get $100 for it. As for being cleaned, I see LOTS of parallel hairlines going in the direction of K1 to K7.
Logic tells me one shouldn't label a coin as "improperly cleaned" unless one also labels another as "properly cleaned".
I agree. IMO a coin is either cleaned or not. So if it's been cleaned, just label it cleaned. If not, say nothing about that.
Perhaps unfortunately, that form of logic has very little to do with it. Dealers and collectors alike probably would not like their otherwise decent-looking coins to be labeled "properly cleaned" as it would likely lower the market value. "Properly cleaned" coins that are straight-graded are generally called "market acceptable" even though the TPGs don't label them as such. You just have to hone your coin grading skills and knowledge to try to identify them. As others have said, most 19th century silver has been cleaned to one degree or another; some estimate it as high as 80%. One dealer, Gerry Fortin, clearly provides his own notations of whether a straight-graded slabbed coin or a raw coin he has for sale is "market acceptable" or "original surfaces". I have learned a good bit just by analyzing these coins' photos and looking for the markers.
All I have to say is... Well I liked the coin, so I bought it. I guess sometimes we can't afford high quality so we get what we can afford. This is one of the last remaining of these fine Commemorative coins and I'm happy with what I got.
The abrasions (scratches) on the field and lack of luster indicate a cleaning. I think you could get more than a hundred for it. (ebay) Cleaned, graded ones are going for a couple hundred, but that's just the asking price. Check eBay for sold for a better idea.
The piece has quite a bit of wear for an Isabella Quarter. My grade would EF sharpness, cleaned. Having said that, I still think that $100 was a fair price. As for the “improperly cleaned” comment, there are hairlines and the color is a dullish white which indicates that the original surfaces have been removed. What is “property cleaned?” Perhaps a coin could have dirt, glue or some other substance on it. In that case, removing the stuff without disturbing the original surfaces, could be called a “proper cleaning.” I once had a raw, uncirculated quarter eagle I purchased from a friend of my wife’s family when I was a dealer. The coin had some glue on it, which I was see was superficially on the surface of the coin. Using a little “Goo-Gone” with no rubbing, I removed it. I then got the coin certified as an MS-63. When was a young collector, an aunt gave me two gold dollars that had been glued in a book. A dealer, who looked at them, said that the surfaces in the date area were etched. Later I used some warm water, and the problem areas were fixed. These are a couple of examples.
I'd prefer they say Cleaned versus Harshly Cleaned. Then there's a couple more categories (at least) - Marked Cleaned But Really Isn't, and Not Marked Cleaned But Really Is.
I think Publius2 has it right. A cleaned but "market acceptable" coin (meaning it straight grades) will generally have some unnatural brightness to the surfaces and some faint parallel hairlines not readily seen with the naked eye. But, it's a shifting standard and we all know of coins rejected as "cleaned" that subsequently graded.
