question about ddd being worthless and not a real error??

another one at ctf coins 129 and change, this one is nicer

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3137675612...,osub=osub,crd=crd,segname=segname,chnl=mkcid

 

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When I saw the word "worthless" in the title I thought it was referring to my autobiography.

 

Asking price means absolutly nothing. Anybody can ask for anything they want on ebay. What are the SOLD prices? Granted this is a much better variety than a run of the mill die chip, but still, the value is what collectors are paying not what a seller is asking.

I'll give you some credit, at least your not using Etsy listings.

 

Now it makes more sense to me but still a bit weird. Thanks for the post and thanks for the input paddyman98, among others.

 

Slabbed creep for sale

 

Sorry and apologies to those who accept it. What is the difference between normal die deterioration and this special die deterioration? One spreads more easily , probably due to a bad alloy/pressure combination, and admitting it ,instead it is a special mint error and experts cheer it on. Die deterioration has always been produced similarly, so why a new 'type' ? Who is Robert Scheschuk who discovered all of them? But it doesn't matter unless he worked at the mint. I do not know. Just plain unreal. Jim

 

I can't be any more clear:

CTF coins are absolutely obnoxiously priced and the guy who owns and advertises them is a DETRIMENT to this hobby. He literally will sell a coin he buys online and within days it is literally about 5-6 times what he paid for it. What an absolute jerk.

I recommend no one buys anything from him.

 

that is what i do not understand, i see cents and nickels all the time where the design is creeping toward the edge, but experts on here say worthless, now all of a sudden this die deterioration or "creep" is super valuable for some reason, they do look the same type of error

 

Can you show me another post with design creep, where experts here said it was worthless?

 

there are hundreds of cents and nickels posted on here, and they are called die deterioration spread, or die deterioration late state die, nv. or worthless, that is what this is, no?? a die that has outlasted it's life and is starting to spread the mottos, i see hundreds of pennies every day whilst crh that have that ring around the mottos, is it not the same thing?? an over worn die??? if not, i do not understand this....sorry

instead of die deterioration they are calling it "design creep"..what exactly is design creep, if not an overly worn (near terminal) die state??

please see desert gem post above mine by 2

 

Normal die deterioration IS NOT the same as design creep. Please take the time to read the links from error-ref in post #9. The ring around the Motto is known as a ridge ring. You can also read about it on error-ref.com. All of these are types of die deterioration, but they are not caused by the same mechanisms

Take some time to look at and study the links. They will help

 

Design creep is not the same as die deterioration doubling. I believe you are confusing two similar, but different things…

 

ok, similar, what is the major differences?? as i said and also desertgem as well, what is the reason one is worth a ton, and the other worthless, if they are similar??

 

Did you read the info in the link I provided to error-ref? I only ask, because it’s all lain out there…

DDD: “Die deterioration (die wear, die fatigue) sometimes produces discernible doubling of affected design elements. We call this die deterioration doubling (DDD).”

Design creep: “In this rare die deformation error, the die face expands during the press run. In lateral view, it comes to resemble the battered handle of a rock chisel. Eventually the die face expands beyond the working face of the collar (presuming the hammer die is involved). The result is that the face of the coin struck by the deformed die lacks the design rim and the peripheral design elements are cut off.”

There are millions of examples of DDD, but the design creep appears to be only on that nickel year/mint…

 

So who switched the die material? It used to be the case at the mint where when a new die was inserted they took sample of the output before letting the operator increased the rate to normal ?
It's not really a problem for me, as I do not collect that group of coins, but no one has yet explained why this happened with these few? Or maybe there were 1000s produced and someone is trying to rip the price before other bags are suddenly discovered. All dies can expand the die face during the run (DDD) and then they change the die~ and these samples just did more, longer, and harder and produced Creepers ???

OK, it is a creeper , a larger DDD, so someone explain why this is an error of value and what is the interface difference when a DDD becomes a Creeper?
IMO, Jim

 

Here is my explanation, which may or may not be accurate, but at least it seems plausible to me.

DDD - the metal on the hardened die erodes leaving flow lines and distortion of the devices, particularly in areas of high metal movement. It is caused by an abrasive mechanism after tens of thousands of strikes. IMO, luster formation is just the early stages of die deterioration.

Design Creep - I believe there could have been an anomaly in the working die hardening process which resulted in one/some working dies not being properly hardened. As mentioned in error-ref, the die spread out like the hammered end of an old chisel. I think a hardening error explains the spreading and why it is only found on the specific date.

Just my thoughts on potential explanation. Please comment if anybody feels I missed something

 

Design creep was the nickname given by the founder, Flared die face is the technical term given by Error Specialist Mike Diamond.
Here is an interesting piece he wrote for Coinworld regarding the subject
https://www.coinworld.com/insights/collectors-clearinghouse-design-creep.html

 

How about you show some coins that demonstrate as much expansion as the OP’s photos do. After all, rarity plays a role in value.

 

As I mentioned, I do not collect such. I still say it is die deterioration damage (DDD), the only difference is that there was something irregular in the die production, hardening process that allowed quick deterioration of the design. Someone must have noticed it quickly otherwise a much larger number of such would have been produced or the inspecting foreman would have noticed and recycled the batch. Evidently someone did notice and somehow they ended up on the market. So some people will pay 3-4 figure money for one, and maybe 5 years from now a few thousand more will show up as creeper II . I would still want to know where such coins are considered by the experts to have passed DDD and became a Creeper. 5% distortion. 10% distortion? 25% ? IMO, Jim

 

DDD on a Nickel

Design creep in a Nickel

Can you tell the difference? If not, examine the rim more closely.