When does "traces of tooling" become "tooled within an inch of it's life"

That's a crime. Here's my smooth but natural.

 

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A lot of good information here, if I ever decide to buy or sell an ancient coin. As it is, I take coins that are virtually unidentifiable and bring them to the point where they can be attributed. I have been doing this for only two years. Before then I had zero information about ancient coins and cleaning techniques. I learned what I know from asking questions on this forum. I thank you all for that.

 

Technically speaking there are traces of tooling. It's just that they also accompany the unmentioned excessive tooling.

 

Very good sestertius for so rare a princess. Because it is an authentic coin ! And wear is part of their history.

 

The numismatic definition of the word "smoothing" is interesting.
I have only been collecting ancients for 3 years. Therefore, I don't know where to look, for an "official" definition of the word "smoothing".
I searched for an "official" definition of the word "smoothing", but I didn't find one.

I tried the American Numismatic Society : http://numismatics.org/
I tried the Royal Numismatic Society : https://numismatics.org.uk/
I tried the American Numismatic Association : https://www.money.org/
I tried the Ancient Coin Collectors Guild : https://accguild.org/
I tried the NGC glossary : https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/2202/Glossary/

I looked through my books about ancient coins. In the books, the only discussion of smoothing, that I found, was in Sayles "Ancient Coin Collecting" Volume 1 Second Edition 2003, on pages 88 and 89, in which he says the following :
"SMOOTHING: The mechanical removal of surface imperfections in the field of a coin is called smoothing. This may lead to a more visually attractive specimen, but most collectors frown upon any alteration to the actual surface metal of a coin..."

On Forum Ancient Coins, I found the following definition of smoothing :
https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=smoothing
"Smoothing is the grinding down of the metal surface of the fields on a coin (usually bronze) to "smooth" pitted, rough areas. Smoothing can also be performed on areas other than the fields, however, if the work modifies the original form of the reliefs or attempts to recreate worn or corroded details, then it must be described as tooling, not smoothing. Smoothing is a form of tooling but is less destructive.
...
Smoothing is sometimes incorrectly used to describe a form of cleaning where a rough green patina or copper oxide encrustations (often red lumps) are smoothed down to field or detail level. This "smoothing" is better described as cleaning and can enhance the appearance and value of a coin if it is limited to removing encrustations and protrusions. To prevent confusion, the term smoothing should not be used to describe this type of cleaning. The term smoothing should be used only when the metal of the coin has been altered.
...
Tooling and smoothing are damage and reduce rather than enhance value."

The above 2 definitions of smoothing, from Sayles and Forum Ancient Coins, lead me to tentatively believe, that smoothing is the altering of the metal of a coin, and that altering the patina of a coin is not smoothing, but with some exceptions.

One interesting question is, what is the "metal" of a coin? If I remember correctly, the patina of a bronze coin, is a chemical compound, composed of some of the original metal of the coin, combined with oxygen and/or chlorine and/or sulfur, etc. In other words, the patina of a coin, is copper oxide, or copper chloride, or copper sulfide, etc. Which makes me wonder. Where does the "metal" of the coin end, and where does the "not the metal" begin? Perhaps a good definition of the "metal" of a bronze coin, is that the "metal" is shiny and red/yellow, and the "patina" is green or black or some other color.

If someone uses a scalpel to scrape off a few green protrusions on a bronze coin, and if he/she doesn't touch or affect the shiny red/yellow metal of the coin, then that seems like cleaning, not smoothing. If someone uses a scalpel or dremel to smooth out the green patina on a bronze coin, but doesn't touch or affect any of the shiny red/yellow metal, is that smoothing, or is that cleaning?

I think I read somewhere, that when a bronze coin is smoothed, the coin must be repatinated (artificially patinated), because smoothing involves altering the shiny metal of the coin.

However, if the green patina on a bronze coin is very thick, then someone could practically carve an entire design out of the green patina, without touching the shiny red/yellow metal of the coin. That seems like tooling.

So, here is my tentative definition of smoothing and tooling, for a bronze coin :
If you alter the shiny red/yellow metal of a bronze coin, then this is definitely smoothing or tooling.
If you only touch the green/black patina of a bronze coin, and don't alter the shiny red/yellow metal of the bronze coin, then this seems like cleaning, not smoothing or tooling, unless you do one of the following :
1. Carve a design out of the patina. This seems like tooling.
2. Make the existing design more well defined and clearer with sharper edges, by removing patina from the fields next to the devices, without removing a similar amount of patina from the devices. This seems like tooling.

If one of the more experienced CoinTalkers can point me, to a more "official" definition of smoothing, in an internet link, or in a book, then I would like to see it.

 

Well that sold......

 

To someone with more dollars than sense.

 

Any ideas how much for?

 

..is that right?!....its' ironic....

 

I've read many threads on this subject over the years. They are all retreads.

The focus is always on clumsy tooling which is always easy to spot and get indignant over. An easy surefire hot-button issue that gets lots of attention from ancient collectors every time! (Attention. Isn't that what internet forums are really about?) What is rarely, if ever, discussed is artistically proficient tooling by extremely competent craftsman, some employed by sellers and auction houses who really know their stuff. Sometimes we catch 'em, but mostly they go undetected. "So-and-so would never sell me a retouched coin or a fake," just doesn't cut it anymore. People are trying to make money any way they can. If you think you are so smart that you could never get fooled then you probably still believe in Santa Claus.

Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

 

Yeah the uncomfortable truth is that there is money to be made with deceitful conduct like that. I often wonder what unknown mischief has befallen my coins.

 

As stated above this was NOT an auction but a Dealer sale from one of the online multi-dealer venues (if you really want to narrow it down it is one based in Europe). The list price was Eur 3800.

 

right..but i was bidding on this 'tooled' Diddy J sest. at the very time...but i didn't win it, it went for 480 Au...over 100 more than i was willing to part with...