Help with attribution requested.

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Topcat7, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    I have this small (Greek?) bronze coin that I am having difficulty attributing.
    It is AE8mm., and 0.73gm. (I do hope that my photos are orientated correctly.)

    Magical Snap - 2021.11.24 05.59 - 007.jpg Magical Snap - 2021.11.24 05.59 - 006.jpg
     
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  3. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Pretty rough. My speculations:
    Obv: Helmeted head of Athena, right?
    Rev: Humped bull charging right?……a real guess!
    Good luck.
     
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  4. john-charles

    john-charles Member

    I see a horse. It could be a Celtic imitation coin. But, I really do not know.
     
  5. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

  6. john-charles

    john-charles Member

  7. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    Phrygia was part of Ancient Greece.
    I’m not saying that the link I sent is your coin. Only that it may be roughly similar…..to my old eyes.
     
  8. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    'Greek' civilization of the ancient period included most of the Mediterranean most certainly including what is today part of Turkey. Phrygia in central Turkey was included in the ancient Greek world. In 2000+ years there have been quite a few changes in political boundaries.
     
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  9. john-charles

    john-charles Member

    Phrygia was colonized by Greeks, but they were not ethnic Greeks. See Homer.
     
  10. Topcat7

    Topcat7 Still Learning

    Thank you @PeteB .
    I am not convinced because of the lack of 'incuse square punch' mark, but it definitely is 'similar to'.
     
  11. GinoLR

    GinoLR Well-Known Member

    The types are obviously the same as the Kibyra coin, but this one is a minute coin version. Maybe an imitation? It happened sometimes that miniature imitations of coins were minted (not by the official mints?) when there was a small change shortage. It's attested in Caesarea Maritima, and in Jordan also.
     
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  12. john-charles

    john-charles Member

    I realize this is thin ice I am treading, (or so it seems) but, the Phrygians( in the literature ex. Illiad ) were allies of Troy. They fought the Greeks. They had been a part of the Hittite Empires, which does not make them Hittites. Parts of their territory was colonized by the Greeks. That does not change their ethnicity, no more than Macedonian conquerors made the residents of the various Afghan satraps become Greeks. I know this is a sensitive topic, or so it seems, but it shouldn't be. Both the Romans and most of the Greek states of which I am aware were major human traffickers. Again being conquered by or being a slave of the Greeks does not chance ethnicity. If I remember right, the Greeks even found the Phrygian cap peculiar, something that would indicate that it was not Greek. "Herodotus (circa 440 BCE), believed the Armenians migrated from Phrygia" He never says the Armenians were Greeks. There were two Persian satraps associated with Phrygia, neither were considered Greek, although Hellespontine Phrygia was well colonized by various Greek states. If that is all you meant, you should say so. Otherwise, when the terms Greek World, Roman World, or in the "Far East", Chinese World, are used, they often tend to be jingoistic or ethnocentric. It is damaging both for our understanding regions and eras of both the ethnic groups who are overlooked, and for the imperial or colonizing cultures. Lack of understanding of the imperialist or colonialist implications of those terms can be very damaging. I have seen this first hand in Southeast Asia, North America and in the Western European Peninsula. That is why I am careful. Perhaps I spent too much time in the "Academy". I came here to learn; certainly not to teach. There is no hostility on my part, just a desire to keep things correct. I learn better that way.
     
  13. PeteB

    PeteB Well-Known Member

    @dougsmit says it accurately and concisely.
     
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