I acquired this coin recently and I am attempting to determine if it's counterfeit and if it is where did it emanate from... Here is the reference which was made out of Bath Metal (an alloy consisting of 4.5 ounces of zinc per 1 pound of copper) The coin I'm in possession of weighs 14.8g -> however, I can't find a reference to the original coin's weight. Please let me know your advice on how to do further research. Here is what I've looked at so far: I did see this listing on ebay and it referenced 'electrotype' (Electrotyping is a chemical method for forming metal parts that exactly reproduce a model. The method was invented by Moritz von Jacobi in Russia in 1838) There are also references to fake Rosa Americana coins here and here (but they primarily refer to the 1722 - 1724 variety). There is also a reference here that states "Rosa Americana Twopence made for sale as replica by respected Hartford CT numismatist Alfred S. Robinson. 45 struck in brass using new head wholly unlike original." (but this head seems to be the same as the PCGS pix)--this may be that coin but i'm not positive... This reference however refers to 'electrotype'. (but weight is off significantly). Numismatics.org has 13 copies of the 1733 listed but i don't see a reference to the original. and nothing about the 1733 proof is listed here. Not sure what to make of this reference on page 111 (The American Numismatic Manual Dickeson, Montroville Wilson (1860)) I did see this: "but the penny piece of 1733, which we have described, is a rare specimen of that coin issued in the reign of George II. Of this penny, we have never learned of the existence of but four specimens, which were, until lately, in the cabinets of England. For a fac-simile of it we are indebted to Snelling and Ruding, who derived it from the cabinet of Thomas Hollis, Esq., whose collection was sold at auction in London, on May 18th, 1817, when this piece brought the sum of £6, 6s.; another specimen in the collection of Marmaduke Trattle, Esq., commanded the sum of £3, Is., in 1882; the third is in the celebrated collection of the British Museum, and the fourth was purchased in England for the sum of £ 7, or thirty-five dollars, for Charles J. Bushnell, Esq., of New York city, unfortunately placed on board of the steamer Arctic, to be transmitted to him, on her last and fatal voyage, and its pigmy proportions are now added to the vast accumulations that lie imbedded in the sands of the Atlantic ocean." Comparison:
For what it's worth one was sold at SB in 2018. More here. from auction description: "The Parmelee-Garrett 1733 Pattern Rosa Americana Twopence One of Five Examples Known The Crosby Plate Coin 1733 Rosa Americana pattern twopence. Martin 1-A, W-1370. Rarity-7. Proof-64 BN (PCGS). 265.6 grains. Coin turn. A beautiful example of the single greatest rarity in the Rosa Americana series, coined after the death of William Wood as a final exclamation point before his coining patent was allowed to expire. The surfaces resemble those of the Proof halfpence struck with the young head of George II, beautifully smooth, deeply toned to chocolate brown with some subtle reflectivity and iridescence in shades of navy blue and more. Multiple strikes brought the distinctive bust of George II into extraordinary relief, coined atop a specially prepared planchet that shows finishing marks around its edge. The surfaces are natural, original, and nearly flawless, with just a few minor scattered depressions and lintmarks from the moment of coining. A comma-shaped lintmark on the lowest part of the bust, below the neck but above the truncation, is the most notable of these. The eye appeal, like the detail, is magnificent. This issue has been a classic early American rarity since the earliest days of American numismatics. The first auction appearance of a 1733 Rosa Americana twopence can be traced back to the May 1817 sale of the Thomas Brand Hollis Collection. Lot 515 was described as "George II. his Head and Titles, reverse, a Leafed Rose, crowned, inscribed, Rosa Americana, 1733, "Utile Dulci," see Snelling's View of Coins struck in our Colonies abroad, &c.Plate 4, No. 28; another of these pieces is in the Collection of Marmaduke Trattle, Esq. which belonged to Mr. Edward Bootle, very fine." Which of the handful of specimens known to modern numismatists belonged to Mr. Trattle and which to Mr. Bootle are unknown, and the Trattle and Bootle cabinets are lamentably little remembered today. The great early American numismatist Charles Bushnell was frustrated in his attempt to acquire a specimen of this rarity. His newly purchased example sank aboard the wreck of the S.S. Arcticon September 27, 1854, a newsworthy disaster off the coast of Newfoundland that also claimed the life of famed numismatist Jacob Giles Morris. No specimen would appear on the market for years, and it appears Bushnell never owned one. Charles Clay, a surgeon from Manchester, England, who gained worldwide renown for pioneering the surgical removal of the ovaries, was an advanced numismatist by the 1840s. While it's unknown when he acquired his 1733 Rosa Americana twopence, his was the first specimen to have kept its provenance to the present day. This is his coin. In the 1871 sale of the Charles Clay Collection, this coin was described as "a gem, worthy of the most determined competition among American collectors. Its possession is of the utmost importance, as it is a pattern for a coin which was strictly American in character." As could be expected in this era, that "most determined competition" was won by the dean of American collectors in the era that followed the sale of the Mickley Collection: Lorin Parmelee. While this coin was not plated in the Clay sale, the Parmelee catalog echoed the Clay sale's description closely enough that it may be reasonably assumed that Parmelee knew it was the same piece. The Clay sale noted "only two specimens were struck; one of these is in the British Museum, and this is the other." Parmelee's sale noted that this coin was "A proof of the period: the most beautiful design of the series; one other impression is said to exist in the British Museum, and this is the only specimen existing outside of that institution." The Parmelee sale catalog, an overflowing buffet of numismatic rarities of extraordinary value, continued: "Mr. Parmelee has always considered this piece to be the most valuable and interesting coin in his cabinet." It brought $275, more than any of the 1792 patterns, more than the unique Proof 1794 dollar in copper, and more than the gold 1792 Washington President pattern by Jacob Perkins. It brought more than the high grade 1794 dollar, or the Gem 1793 Chain AMERI., or the 1815 half eagle, or any other lot besides the 1783 Nova Constellatio patterns, the Brasher doubloon, the 1804 dollar and the 1822 $5. If Sylvester Crosby's The Early Coins of Americais to be believed, Parmelee did not acquire this coin directly from Clay: he bought it from Crosby. On page 167 of Crosby, describing this coin, Crosby wrote "the only specimen we have seen is in the collection of the writer; another, as well as an obverse in steel, is said to be in the British Museum." This coin was plated in Crosby, and it appears likely that Crosby was the source of some of the known electrotypes of this coin, which would have been produced in this era. There appear to be just five genuine specimens of this issue: this coin, the two in the Ford IX sale, the British Museum specimen, and the Norweb duplicate that was given to the National Numismatic Collection at the Smithsonian Institution. There is also a small number of uniface strikes in steel (enumerated by Martin as six discrete specimens), as well as a lead striking and a uniface bath metal reverse that was sold in Ford IX as lot 195. After the Parmelee sale, this coin did not sell publicly for nearly a century. When it surfaced in the Garrett III sale of 1980, it was celebrated as "the finest known example, one of the most important pieces in the present sale." While markets change and tastes change, history doesn't, and this coin retains its status 38 years after Garrett and 35 years since its last appearance. It is one of the most important pieces in the present sale. Provenance: From the Archangel Collection. Earlier, from Stack's sale of the John L. Roper 2nd Collection, December 1983, lot 96; the collection of Charles Clay, M.D.; William Strobridge's sale of the Clay Collection, December 1871, lot 193; Sylvester S. Crosby Collection; Lorin G. Parmelee Collection; New York Stamp and Coin (David Proskey and Harlan Page Smith)'s sale of the Lorin G. Parmelee Collection, June 1890, lot 553; Col. James W. Ellsworth Collection; John Work Garrett Collection, 1923; Bowers and Ruddy's sale of the Garrett Collection, Part III, October 1980, lot 1256. Plated in Sylvester S. Crosby's The Early Coins of America, Plate IV, 16. PCGS Population: 1; none finer. This is the sole example certified by PCGS. PCGS# 143 Click here for certification details from PCGS."
I also found two references in a sale in a Stack's Bowers Galleries The January 2012 Americana Sale (item 7018 and item 7019 on page 142 of 459) that stated: "7018 1733 Rosa Americana Twopence Pattern Die Trial, Breen-106, W-1370. Lead. AU-50. This beautiful Rosa Americana pattern is known in a variety of metals, including copper, iron, bath metal, and as here, in lead. Struck in coin turn on a lead square about 43.5 X 45.5 millimeters, the edges of which are a bit uneven and the surfaces of which show some buckling of the soft metal and pesting of the surface from prior humid storage. There is some softening of the design at the high points through handling and we also note a few old marks on both sides. Very rare in this metal, we know of only the fully round lead example that was lot 97 in our (Stack's) 1983 sale of the Roper Collection, though there undoubtedly could be more extant examples in lead that are not known to us. The two-sided copper examples in Ford brought over $50,000 each, while the uniface impression steel of an obverse brought over $8,000 in the same sale. A remarkable item that belongs in an important collection of Rosa Americana coinage. 7019 "1733" Pattern Rosa Americana Twopence. Robinson Copy. Kenney-4, W-15160. Brass. MS-63 BN. Dating to the 1860s, this Robinson Copy of the 1733 Rosa Americana pattern twopence exhibits faint semi-reflective qualities in the fields when viewed under a strong light. Outwardly the appearance is one of blended autumn-orange and golden-olive patina, with a few swirls of crimson patina also scattered about. Boldly struck throughout, the only significant blemish is a well concealed spot at the base of the obverse portrait" Update: Lot 93 mentioned above from the 1983 sale can be found here (see page 38 or 183)
it also seems that you can purchase replica's for about $18 here which is likely what I have here but it's worth the adventure of research...
I am also referencing this post from a while back--I'm not quite sure if a ring test is really all that appropriate. I'm thinking I should let a TPG do that if I can determine if it's not a replica from the last 30 years... "Here are a few additional tests you can do yourself in order to detect if yours is a replica (most were made by casting or electrotyping). Weighing the coin is a great place to start. An authentic one weighs between 17 and 18 grams. Cast copies and many electrotypes have a seam along the outer edge. Also as with casts, electrotypes generally will not "ring." A ring test often is used on coins to determine whether a coin is solid and struck. When it is balanced on the tip of a finger and struck softly with a pen or pencil, a genuine coin usually will produce a high-pitched ring. Most electrotypes and cast copies will merely "thud" or "clunk." Since these pieces are not actually struck, they have relatively little solidity."
From what I see the Robinson copies all have a very distinct look that doesn't match the original (or the coin in my possession) Alfred S. Robinson (more) did business in Hartford, Connecticut, and was primarily a banker and exchange broker. He also bought and sold coins and issued tokens. some examples (brass, silver, and copper): https://www.coinshome.net/en/coin-x-y-z-lhsKbzbigUUAAAFLaO5KKMM8.htm https://www.greatcollections.com/Co...-Medal-Robinson-Copy-Kenney-4-NGC-MS-63-Toned https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/l...binson-copy-kenney-4-w-15180-silver-ms-63-ngc https://coins.ha.com/itm/colonials/...-brown-ngc-kenney-4-w-15150-r6/a/1283-15030.s https://www.barnebys.com/auctions/l...-struck-copy-by-alfred-s-robinson-KbdTEojKqzY
I finally found the weight (in grains) at 290 grs. here. I believe 14.8 g = 228.3989 grains (if google is accurate) so that puts this coin well under what's mentioned here: *also note the 6 struck in steel mentioned. I see one of those here. However, Page 167 of 'The Early Coins of America' does reference a copy ("a sort of jetons") at 127 grains (or 8.23 grams).
OK, I think I have taken this as far as I can... The original coins (not the one I am in possession of) are believed to be a 1733 'pattern' created after Wood's death (1730) and possibly made in "several unique varieties including those made in lead and steel" (Colonial Newsletter, no 130). There are also references to the coins possibly having a population of ~45 (Found in an advert from marketing at the PNG Convention in Chicago on March 5-7, 1965) - but PCGS and SB all say it's more like ~4. Alfred Robinson made copies that looked quite a bit different but someone made electrotype copies (like this one)... It's hard to tell who made the electrotypes but it's referenced here that it could have been famous collector/author Sylvester Crosby (if I'm reading this correctly) "If Sylvester Crosby's The Early Coins of America (from ~1875) is to be believed, Parmelee did not acquire this coin directly from Clay: he bought it from Crosby. On page 167 of Crosby, describing this coin, Crosby wrote "the only specimen we have seen is in the collection of the writer; another, as well as an obverse in steel, is said to be in the British Museum." This coin was plated in Crosby, and it appears likely that Crosby was the source of some of the known electrotypes of this coin, which would have been produced in this era." An electrotype copy was sold for $280 at a SB auction in 2020 but there is limited info... another was sold in 2016. Here is the 2020 pix: I would love to see this however but I searched for over an hour and could not find it: In correspondence between Eric Newman and Richard Picker in 1960, Eric said, "I have considerable material assembled on this matter but have a few other projects ahead of it." If anyone has some additional pointers to go deeper on this please let me know.
