Do slabbed notes need to breath??

This topic had come up in a thread i just got finished reading so
I thought i would get some opinions about the subject!

So do slabbed notes need to breath??

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

That's what PCGS says...

"Our specially designed grading label and partial open-top holder allow notes to "breathe," thus preventing the paper from deteriorating due to lack of oxygen"

Have no idea whether that is true or just a made up fact to help market their services.

 

Oxygen will over time deteriorate normal paper, and although notes aren't printed on normal paper I would assume oxygen would have the same effect

 

I think what they mean is , paper does the best in a certain humidity , since no slab , for coins or paper is truly airtite , they would breathe wether they had their special open top or not . JMO
rzage

 

I have my notes (not many) sealed in foodsaver bags, but this concerns me, do my notes need to be able to 'breath'? They are all fairly recent American notes so they are rag cloth, but still is there something im not aware of?

 

If they do not breath, then think of the Egyption finds in tombs. When tombs are opened to the air after so long, some things turn to dust. Things do need some dry air, so they can survive. -O)

 

Well we first need to determine this;

Paper used for production of US Currency is a special formulation of cotton and linen. If I am not mistaken it is a factor of 75% and 25% of the above.
Acid levels/concentration is the leading cause for the slow degradation of non archival papers like news paper.
On the other hand Archival paper is made from a slightly alkaline paper with a pH of 7 (neutral or slightly above 7 which becomes basic). Has any one conducted a litmus test on the non inked surfaces of US Paper Currency?

The answer to this question is simply put as the content of acid in our currency. Oxidation can occur when moisture and heat are present in the same environment as the currency..this usually shows itself as foxing (light to dark yellow brown stains) this is why the Relative Humidity is so important in storage of Historical Documents and currency for that fact.


Two primary factors contribute to the degradation of conventional paper.

1.First is lignin, a component of the cell walls in plants. Lignin will turn yellow as it is exposed to heat, causing yellowing paper.

2. Acid makes the paper more fragile, thin, and brittle. Newspapers provide perhaps the best example of this.

So take a small sampling of non inked paper from a $1 note dissolve or work the fibers till they are saturated with a pH7 distilled water..then the litmus test when it is saturated state...there your answer will lie.

The chemical make up of the paper used for US notes is not revealed to the General Public, if that were the case, we would all be making it.

Here is a nice link that can explain it a little better if you like.
http://www.cmu.edu/acrc/hydrolysis_&_oxidation.htm

Does this answer the question if they need to breath or not..well no, it address what happens where they breathe...

RickieB

 

Great information Rickie!!:thumb:

Though the chemicals and related oxidation and humidity levels
Present on any given note is a great indicator on the paper
Decomposing, Maybe i missed it but i didnt see anything in regards
To giving the note any air vs an air tight seal.

So that would be my next question as i have heard alot of
Negatives on notes with an air tight holder!:eating:

 

Does this answer the question if they need to breath or not..well no, it address what happens where they breathe...


From my understanding, some TPG have Humidity Controlled rooms in which slabbing is performed..now I can not verify this with 100% accuracy, but what I have heard from some reputable sources say this is the case.

My feeling is that unless any holder is non-gas permeable, it breathes. Therefore it must be porous and when examined under high power microscope or even an electron scanning scope pores looks like gaping holes when magnified.
I work with some small pore size filtration devices around 1 to 2 microns that effectively keep out potential contaminants, viruses even smaller than that pore size and can flow through easily.

I am not sure if Mylar-D which PCGS uses is gas permeable or not..perhaps you should ask them the question. They have to have Public Record of MSDS Sheets on file.

A good way to do this would be to ask for a sealed empty sample of the slab..expose it to warm temps and then place it in a refrig..if it condensates inside, well it's permeable material or has a leak.

Regards,

RickieB

 

Well i know for a Fact the PCGS slabs have a breathable slab as there is
Approx 3/4 of an inch on each side to deter note rot do to lack of oxygen!

 

O2 alone will not directly cause degradation, it is the combination of humidity and temp that cause the problems. Storage in a cool dark place with ample silica gel would be a desirable location for note storage. I would look up the recommended humidity level for Paper Storage and I would think it to be in the 20-30% range..lack of humidity will cause drying, cracking and other maladies, just as winter dryness does to your skin...and remember that our atmosphere contains ~ 20% O2

Most analytical O2 sensors measure the dissolved O2 in a liquid, therefore, a Zirconium Dioxide Sensor is used for O2 measurement within a gas mixture and Infrared for CO2 measurement in a gas mixture. This is why a relative humidity sensors is best for maintaining correct reading in ambient temperature applications. Yes temperature has a resounding effect on humidity...

Just food for thought.

RickieB

 

In 20-30 years, i'm sure my notes will be just fine, but alas, I will more than likely be turning to dust!

 

Well, there's a thought to cheer everyone up in the morning! I'm hoping for 30-40 myself, but still....

 

What about "Foxing" Is it not a mold that is a result of sulphur content and air moisture that acts on the paper to turn the surfaces to a rust or yellow color. Should the holders not help keep out this contents to protect the item in the holders. Would you not want to keep the % of moisture to below 40% to keep the mold at bay. Oh well! -O)

 

There is alot of contradictary information out there, Since alot of
This has to do with the paper and ink process used and several
Other factors it,s hard to make an informed decision.

I myself read an article in the mpcgram about this very subject where
A Liberian was interviewed about putting "Paper in plastic" Who better
Then a Liberian with over 30 years experience, She stated that with
Out any oxygen the paper will rot!! She did not state how long the
Process took, But she does archive paper for the library, So she
Know,s what she,s talking about :bow:


So take this information as you will :high5:

 

I do genealogy and I go to the Archives here. They have safe rooms for documents for researcher to view actuals doctments. you have wear white gloves, so you can work with some of the documents. -O)

 

How are the Archives stored?? In what kind of material??

 

mpcusa...

Valspar a World Leader in barriers has a nice summary about the gas permeability of PET (Mylar-D)...as I mentioned when viewed under high magnification it appears to be like matted fibers of felt or cross stitched/woven patterns that has cavities and pockets for molecular transfer or what is called OTR (Oxygen Transfer Rate).

Oxygen is an oxidizer and must react with other molecular agents to induce damage. The most common sources are CO2 (which in certain arrangements acts as a mild acid), Acids, Humidity (moisture),Temp and a whole host of other agents.

Is it the best we have at the moment for Archival Storage? Well general census says yes..but there have been no long term data on this as of yet.

Again, food for thought.

RickieB

 

Librarians are dealing with all kinds of paper, particularly some with high acid content and some with environmental damage. The neutral storage is meant to prevent further damage from happening. The gloves are used for the same reason that one handles coins with gloves, to keep your greasy, acidic fingers off the material!

Also, our air isn't necessarily the cleanest so that pollution may be a bigger problem to a New York City collector's paper or coins than to one in Cheyenne, WY.

 

That's how I see it too!