I find it hard to understand how this coin wasn't graded harshly cleaned https://www.greatcollections.com/Coin/1074378/18152-Capped-Bust-Half-Dollar-PCGS-VF-30-from-photo
This is a unflattering harshly overlit pic. Here is the PCGS trueview. Cleaned? Yes. But it's an 1815 and (regrettably) gets the benefit of the doubt.
Yes, I think the TPG gave it a large benefit of the doubt there. I wouldn't go for it at a VF30 price point.
A lot of bust halves have been cleaned at one point or another due to another generation of collectors before us. the cleaning, according to PCGS probably was noted as old enough, or superficial. Not all heritage photos are winners, for sure.
I don't really have any doubts that it is harshly cleaned even with the trueview image. This is definetely an example of needing to buy the coin and not the slab. Look at that scrap accross the bill of the eagle.
In al honesty I see no signs that this coin has been harshly/improperly cleaned - none ! Does it have some light scratches and hairlines ? Yes, it absolutely does. But light scratches and hairlines such as this coin has are beyond extremely common on well circulated coins. And there is nothing about any of these light scratches and hairlines that would indicate the coin has been harshly/improperly cleaned for the look of light scratches and hairlines due to wear are completely different than those caused by harsh/improper cleaning ! And no, the coin is not worthy of a details slab for over-dipping either. Has it been dipped ? Again, yes, it absolutely has. But over-dipping as a reason for a details slab only applies when luster has been stripped from the coin by the dip. And all the luster on this coin was long gone from circulation wear before it was ever dipped. I do however believe that the coin has been over-graded a good bit. I would grade it no better than VF20 given the amount of wear the coin has. But I would give this coin a clean grade every time.
I'm struggling with this first sentence. I don't really like the looks of this coin, and if it was any "whiter", well, at some point I think it should be considered a problem coin, even if it was simply dipped. Even though these older coins do get some leniency. But I'm willing to be educated.
I am actually suprised that you would say this. Normal circulating wear I would think would smooth out the fields and remove and lines in the fields. As for the dipping issue, there has to be some point where a circulating coin would also be considered over dipped aside from the original luster. Acid erodes the surface. In this case, that might be why the lines are visiable (like nick a date ? ). Your experience is a zillion time more than mine, so that is that. I wouldn't touch this coin, though, because of the scratching all about it. 4 grand is big money.
It is amazing that with the value of these coins in the economy of the time that these coins circulated so heavely.
I'll be the first to agree with you that older coins are given a good bit of leniency by the TPGs when it comes to grading them. Particularly when it comes to things that would make them a problem coin. But me, I don't do that - ever ! As an example, a more modern coin and an older coin can have the exact same issues. And the TPGs would pretty much always designate the more modern coin as a problem coin, but they would give the older coin a clean grade. That's the kind of leniency I'm talking about. But me, I would designate both coins as problem coins. Regarding the dipping issue when it comes to well worn coins. The statement I originally made is pretty simple and straightforward and it means exactly what I said. When someone uses the term "over-dipped", in all cases they are talking about a coin that has had all of its luster removed by the coin dip. But if a coin has no luster on it to begin with, by definition that can't happen. Which means a coin with a lot of wear on it and no luster whatsoever cannot be over-dipped. There would be one exception, and that is what is mentioned by cplradar in his comments below, (underlined by me) - but I have never seen nor even heard of an example of it. Yes, if a well worn coin were left in coin dip long enough, and it would have to be a considerable period of time, to eat away the surface of the coin, remove detail and possibly leave it pitted, then yes it could be possible. But that's about the only way I can even think of. But as I said I have never seen nor even heard of such a thing actually being done. Nor have I ever seen or even heard of the TPGs designating a well worn coin as having been over-dipped. It simply doesn't happen. As for your comment dipping being the reason for the light scratches and hairlines becoming visible - yes, that happens all the time ! That is one of the risks that one always faces when dipping a coin. The very purpose of dipping a coin is to remove toning and or contaminants from the coin. Both of which can easily cover up and completely hide light scratches, hairlines, and in some cases even evidence of a previous and old harsh/improper cleaning on a coin. And if it has been harshly/improperly cleaned, then that coin is designated as a problem coin. But what one needs to understand is that it is not the dipping that makes the coin a problem coin, it is the previous damage that nobody could see prior to the dipping that makes it a problem coin. The dipping itself did not do any damage to the coin ! It merely allowed pre-existing damage to become visible. All of this is why dipping coins has always, and when I says always I mean for as long as dipping has existed which happens to be for the last 200 years or so, as being a perfectly acceptable practice by the numismatic community. When a coin is dipped properly, no damage to the coin can be done by the coin dip ! The vast majority of the time when a coin is dipped properly it is considered by the numismatic community to be a good thing, and sometimes a very, very good thing ! Often increasing its value, and sometimes increasing its value several times over ! I have seen examples of coins where before it was dipped it was worth $26,000 - but after it was dipped it was worth $156,000 !
