Beilstein test and a cappuccino.

Jeez, you used my reply in a different thread...didn't think I remembered responding to or reading this one...oh well, another senior moment here's a more usual Beilstein test:

 

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Should I clean the wire? And with what?

 

I thought it would be better to start a new thread that concentrated on the test. Since you were helpful with explaining it to me I just wanted to offer you the credit. Thanks again

 

In the lab, they just heat the wire up till it has no color in the flame and then do the test.

 

OK I see. I did get it cherry red, but did not watch for any color. I am going to try again. I will also try with known PVC material and make a few comparisons along with a baseline. It was just supposed to be a demonstration but since I'm on the right track I may as well do a complete experiment.

 

I applaud your spirit!

 

Nope. It's the plastic.

Yep.

 

I agree that the Beilstein test can be a bit overkill, but if you follow the procedure, you should have no issue with verdigris or cross contamination.

The following procedure list 4 methods to do the test, although all are similar. Interestingly, it does mention the test can be used to evaluate coin/currency storage products and even has a table of the composition of some products (although I am not familiar with any of those listed)

https://www.canada.ca/en/conservati...ilstein-test-organic-polymeric-materials.html

Short clip from the link. The Bolded/black text are my emphasis

Procedure
Use a copper wire thick enough not to melt too quickly (e.g., I2- or 14-gauge copper wire, stripped of its insulation, that is used for wiring houses). Heat the copper wire to glowing red in the flame of a Bunsen burner or propane torch.

Continue heating until no colour (other than the nearly invisible, slightly blue torch flame) is visible. There should be no green colour in the flame. Wash the wire intermittently with water and dilute nitric acid (10%) to remove materials that cause unwanted colouration. If washing fails, try a new wire. Once it is clean, take care to avoid touching the wire with fingers or objects other than the test material. When the flame is colourless, the test can proceed.

Note that they use a freshly stripped wire and that when it's clean, no color is visible. That indicates that the copper atoms in the wire do not give a false positive green color (Note: There are flame tests that can be used to detect copper, but the ions need to be dissolved in a solution. This could be the source of the confusion).

OK, so that's probably more than anybody wants to know about the Beilstein test (except maybe @bruthajoe ). My recommendation; skip they test and just buy the Saflip Brand. They say polyethylene teraphthalate (Mylar) right on the package. No need to sniff, burn, or bend. (But then you don't get to do cool science experiments )

Hope this helps clarify things

 

I questioned this chemistry myself. A copper oxide is required and a copper wire heated in a flame will form a coating of copper oxide. Then applied or combined with the sample to be tested and again heated in a flame. A positive test is indicated by a green flame caused by the formation of a copper halide. The test does not detect fluorine/fluorides. It also can create harmful vapors.

This is a good initial method to determine if the material could be a candidate for plasticizers. One article (which I can not find) claimed that only hard, brittle plastic that will crack after successive attempts to deform it, would not likely contain any plasticizers. I was able to bend this flip repeatedly and could not successfully "crack" it.

I can not believe I did not consider this. You can certainly smell any off gassing of plastic products when they are fairly new. I did not try it and wish I did. Unfortunately the flips were shipped in... smelly plastic . I will have to quarantine them into something inert for a few days and take a whiff.

Also, I will continue what I started here. its a pretty simple test and I would like comparisons for my own curiosity. I will not be able to conclude or verify any results by doing it. I believe someone here can though. I would like to complete a thorough and proper demonstration and let the audience decide. Thanks for the tips!

 

This was an excellent article, best I've
seen yet. This gave me a few more comparative tests to observe and how to accomplish a proper reaction. Thumbs up!

 

So I have a problem with my control. My control was supposed to be the little zippy bag that caused the foggy deposit on this coin...
I was expecting a beautiful green spectacle but instead all I got was the same yellow flame as I did while sterilizing the copper.
Compare for yourself...



How can I make a conclusion on the ability of this test to detect anything that could potentially damage a coin when it's clearly failed the control?
I also tested the "non PVC" flip again as stated in the article and there it is...
I do not know where to go from here.

 

That answer my friend, is quite obvious.....

Disney World!

 

or fishing.

 

Try espresso!

PS. That room looks flammable.

 

FYI @bruthajoe you've got the American flag hanging backwards. The stars are always to hang in the upper left corner even when the flag is vertical.

The only exception is when the flag is depicted on an item that moves and the intention is to show it as if it were blowing backwards.

 

I have 3 ABC extinguishers in this house and it won't be the first time I had to use one.

 

I'm ready to turn it upside down...

 

Shhhhhhh!