Post A Coin And Its Imitation

Constans - AE2

Obv:- D N CONSTANS P F AVG, Pearl diademed, draped & cuirassed bust right
Rev:- FEL TEMP-REPARATIO, emperor in military dress standing left on galley, holding Phoenix and labarum, Victory sitting at the stern, steering the ship
Minted in Aquileia; (//AQP dot), A.D. 348-350
Reference:– RIC VIII Aquileia 99 (C)

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Venice AV Zecchino ND

Crusader States/ Chios imitation

 

Here is a tetarteron from Alexius I and what is said to be a Turkish imitation ( Debatable) of the same denomination.


Alexius I Comnenus, AE TETARTERON SBCV-1931 DOC 40 CLBC 2.4.7

OBV Jeweled radiate Cross, decorated at the end of each limb with one large globule and two smaller, all on two steps.

REV. Bust of emperor wearing stemma, divitision and jeweled loros of traditional type; holds in r. hand scepter cruciger and in l. Globus cruciger. Complete Inscription


This one is also a Alexius coin, bellow it is an imitation, a beautiful example but an imitation none the less. It has similarities to the imitation of SBCV-1931, the scrambled Greek letters.



ALEXIUS AE HALF TETARTERON S-1932 DOC 45 CLBC 2.4.8

OBV Patriarchal cross on two steps.

REV Bust of emperor wearing stemma divitision and jeweled loros and in r. hand holding jeweled scepter and in l. Globus cruciger.


The tetarteron denomination was imitated long after the rulers passed, the denomination stopped being officially produced in mass after the fall of Constantinople to the Latins in 1204, the coin held a great importance to the economy in Greece, so they continued issuing it with light weight crude renditions of the simple designs of two rulers, Alexius and Manuel Comnenus. None seem to exist of John II, Alexius son and Manuel’s father.

The biggest problem with the 12th century coin imitations is they were included in Dumbarton Oakes and Other major collections inventory without realizing they were imitations, this of course put the average weights and sizes out of whack.

Great idea for a thread @John Anthony

 

Florence
AV Florino d'oro ND (Unique) RRRR

Avignon (imitation)
AV Florino d'oro ND
Pope Urban V

 

I posted these less than a month ago, in @Valentinian's terrific thread about Constantine VII. ( https://www.cointalk.com/threads/ro...-constantine-vii-913-959.384165/#post-7931740. With particular thanks to @Tejas for his /your two fantastic, near-literally inspiring posts of the imitation in the same thread.) But, Nope, when it came to reposting it here, I couldn't hold out. Particularly as a complement to my post here about late Viking Age imitations of AEthelred II pennies. (Which, for those tuning in late, were thick on the ground in Scandinavia, thanks to AEthelred's danegelds.)
Here's my intentionally less than museum-quality example of a miliaresion of Basil II Bulgaroktonos and Constantine VII, issued 977-989.
This is the desccription from the dealer, Alfa Numismatics (who is highly recommended --I don't care; he's owed that much).
"Byzantine Empire. Basil II Bulgaroktonos, with Constantine VIII. 976-1025. AR Miliaresion (20mm, 2.04g). Constantinople mint. ЄҺ TOVTω ҺICAT ЬASILЄI C CωҺST, cross crosslet set on pellet on four steps; X at center, • above crescent on shaft; to left, facing crowned busts of Basil and Constantine / + ЬASIL / C CωҺSTAҺ / ΠORFVROS / ΠISTOI ЬAS / RωMAIω, legend in five lines; decoration, +-, above and below. Sear 1810. Very Fine, green deposit."
(I can do 'Coin Greek,' picking out proper nouns and titles. If anyone would care to provide full translations, you'd get some serious gratitude. Likely nothing else, but....)
And here's an imitation from the extreme south of Kievan Rus', in or near Crimea.

This is the description from Numismatik Naumann (also recommended).
"RUSSIA. Kievan Rus. Mstislav Vladimirovich Chrabriy. Prince of Tmutarakan (990-1024). Ae “Miliaresion”. Imitating a Constantinople mint AR Miliaresion of Basil II.
Obv: Cross potent on two steps; on either side, crowned and draped facing bust; crown with pendilia.
Rev: Pseudo-legend in four of five lines across field. Cf. Golenko 3 (for type).
Condition: Near very fine. Weight: 1.14 g. Diameter: 22 mm."
Funly, the imitation is a little broader than the obviously clipped prototype. And very evident billon, in contrast both to the good silver of the prototype, and the frank AE of later examples. Suggesting a relatively early issue --as @Tejas noted in one of his posts cited above. ...But, I promise you, compared to the prototype, the billon isn't much to write home about.
But I'm really needing how, between the Scandinavian imitations of AEthelred II, and this Kievan Rus' one of Basil II and Constantine VII, there are conspicuous, if obvious common themes.
The most salient being the celators' willingness to forge ahead with illiterate renderings of the original legends. This is particularly resonant from here, where I routinely deal with my own respective but copious levels of illiteracy in Greek, Latin (running to coin legends), and French (mostly squinting out journal articles).
Complementing a still broader dynamic of the Viking Age, both early and late: the willingness to actively respond to whatever cultural milieu these folks found themselves in. The gradual Slavification of the Kievan Rus' provides a resonant, nearly contemporaneous parallel to the Francification of the Normans, on the opposite side of the continent ...along with the Anglification of the Danes in the Danelaw and Northumbria /York over the course of the 11th and 12th centuries.

 

@Finn235, sorry for taking this long to respond, but the progression you've put together here is A-, followed by -Mazing. If anyone in this thread has really done the, um, Eurocentric numismatic world a substantive and correspondingly profound service, you get my vote.
(With this being a night of congressional and other state elections, I've got to paraphrase W. C. Fields (old American comic), from his book, W. C. Fields for President. "Cast a vote for W. C. Fields and watch for the silver lining. Cast several votes and watch for the police." ...Remember, he was a comedian.)

 

From the Visigoths, here is an original of Recceswinth (AD 649-672) followed by an imitation from nearly 12 centuries later produced by a well-known forger. Not purported to be from the same mint or even the same metal but close enough.



AV Tremissis (19 mm, 1.58 grams, 6h), Toleto mint
Obverse: + RECCES-V-INΘVS (P+ ligate), diademed and draped bust right
Reverse: + TOLETO PIVS, cross potent on three steps with pellet underneath
References: CNV 454.7; Miles 360b; cf. MEC 1 263
Provenance: Aureo & Calico 218-3 (October 21-22, 2009), Lot 1360, Caballero de las Yndias collection – Part III




AR “Tremissis” (18 mm, 1.81 grams, 12h), “Emerita” mint, dies by Carl Wilhelm Becker (A.D. 1772-1830)
Obverse: + RECCE S • I(NT ligate)SRE, diademed and draped bust left
Reverse: + EMERITΛ PIV(S sideways), cross potent on three steps with pellet underneath
References: CNV F286; Miles F. 75a; Hill 288
Provenance: Ibercoin auction 29 (September 26, 2019), lot 302; ex Kölner Münzkabinett 109 (November 16, 2018), lot 799

 

Victory On Prow.... Trier

 

I just won this VLPP in a group lot from CNG this week, so I contrast it with my imitation, and what a great contrast. The official Siscia mint coin is in the best Late Roman style, while the knock-off is obviously rendered by some drunken Celt!

 

I dunno, I like the drunken celt!

 

LOL ...but what's he doing with Lager?!?

 

Perhaps the reverse of the imitation is best described as "two drunken Celts standing either side of keg".

 

Here are a well-matched pair, the first official and the second an imitation of the same type.



Roman Republican denarius. 20-19 mm. 3.89 grams.
103 BC. Q. Minucius Ter M.F.
Head of Mars left in crested helmet
Two warriors fighting, the one on the left protecting a fallen comrade.
Crawford 319/1. Sear I 197. Minucia 19.


The same type, but fourré. 19-18 mm. 3.53 grams.
On the obverse the silver foil has broken off at 4:30 near the rim. The reverse shows much silver foil broken off. The style is convincing and I think it would have easily passed for genuine until the foil broke off.

For a web page on ancient imitations of all sorts, see here:
http://augustuscoins.com/ed/imit/

 

Here are some of my imitative coins!
An Alexandrian tetradrachm (Price 879) imitated by the Danubian Celtic tribes,


A Roman standing soldiers follis type from Sri Lanka,


'Octopus' king stater of Chola empire (top) copied by Perunjinga Pallavas (left) and Pandyas (right), although depicting their own motifs on reverse.


A silver/billon stater of Vaghelas imitated from the coins of Gujarat Chalukyas, which themselves were imitated from the Sassanian coinage!

 

AV Dinara ND Gandhara Mint Vasu Deva II/ Kushan Empire/ and its imitation.....

AV Dinara ND Boxlo Mint Peroz I/ Sassanian Prince/ rulers of Kushano-Sassanian Empire

 

Everytime I see this Phillip ii portrait I’m more convinced that it is a masterpiece of numismatic sculpture.

 

The very common CONSTANTINOPOLIS type from c. 330-337 under Constantine is also commonly imitated. I have seen very many at coin fairs in England. Many are just poor copies, small, ugly, and poorly struck, but some have special appeal. Sometimes the small size of an imitation makes it cute, like a puppy. This one has that special appeal. It is illustrated above an official piece.



It has a green English patina and a small flan, nevertheless, the dies were also small and the flan and dies are perfectly matched.
13 mm. 0.90 grams. Mintmark: PLG for Lugdunum = Lyons.
The official coin is 18 mm and 2.27 grams. Mintmark BSIS. RIC Siscia 224. "330-333." Sear IV 16468.

 

@Valentinian, both of those are pretty darn exceptional, in their respective capacities. Bravo!

 

Well, Wait, @maridvnvm, so are those! Just starting with the crazy silvering on the prototype.
...I'm sorry to report that, although I found some cool imitations --I sort of homed in on the 4th (-5th ...?) century ones, which from here are only more 'exotic' than the radiates and Constantine I's, once again, Rats, no pics.

 

The very common VRBS ROMA type of c. 330-337 is also commonly imitated. Here are three from Britain next to an official example from Siscia.



The large official coin is 19 mm and 2.87 grams. The smallest one is 8.5 mm and 0.36 grams. It is crowded, but remarkably well centered.