Post A Coin And Its Imitation

This is one of my collecting pursuits, and I have quite a few of these pairs, but I won't proffer them all at once. It'll be an ongoing thread, the only rule being (should you wish to play) that both coins must be in your collection.

To start...A two-soldiers one-standard follis of Constantius II, Siscia mint, with an imitative minim coming in at 11mm, 0.5g.



Minim is used as a catch-all term to describe imitative issues that are significantly smaller than the originals. Why were minima made? Were they tokens, or emergency currency, or were they simply cute little baubles...like the miniature US coins?

 

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I have a few of those imitative minims, and that is a nice one!

For Britain’s first coins, the Cantii (from Kent) copied a Hemiobolion of Apollo from the Greek colony of Massalia (Marseilles), like this:

Late 3rd to mid-2nd century BC, Massalia. Bronze, 15mm, 3.92g. Head of Apollo left. Bull butting right, MA above (for Massalia). Found near Dover, Kent.

The early Cantii copies are more or less recognizable (and actually larger than the original):

Thurrock type, 120-100BC, cast in Kent. Potin, 17mm, 3.09g. Head of Apollo left. Bull butting right, traces of MA above. Found near Dover, Kent (S 62).

This style was copied again and again into the next century, developing a little each time, losing detail each time as you would if using a photocopier. This is a ‘transitional’ variety of the Thurrock potin, when both Apollo and the bull were becoming stylized. Apollo’s hairline has become a vertical bar, while the bull is losing its shape and its legs have become wavy lines:

Thurrock type, 1st Century BC, Kent. Potin, 15mm, 2.83g. Head of Apollo left. Bull butting (between S 62 and S 63).

The designs became very abstract, with Apollo and the bull unrecognisable. If it hadn’t been for the previous coins no-one would have had any idea what it was meant to depict:

85-50BC, Kent. Potin, 17mm, 1.79g. Head of Apollo left. Bull butting right (S 63).

 

Valentinian III (425-455 AD) official solidus and Visigothic imitation. The Visigothic coin was previously posted.
Visigothic Solidus modeled on one of Valentinian III 439-455 AD of the Ravenna mint. Mint: possibly Toulouse. The Visigothic solidi characteristically have a tiny wreath over the emperor’s head on the obverse. Also, the “C’s” at the end of the reverse inscription are distinctive, as is the overall style. MEC 170. This coin is from the sale of the William Subjack collection, Coins of the German Migrations, sold by Italo Vecchi in Nummorum Auctiones 14, lot#8, on 5 February 1999

 

The real thing
18mm 2.45g

 

Probably a bit more controversial, but it certainly seems that one was modeled after the other.


Catalog: SNG Levante 113; SNG France 360
Weight: 10.11 g
Antike - Griechenland - Phönizien
Tarsos. Mazaios, Satrap. Circa 361-334 BC. AR Stater.
Baaltars seated left, holding sceptre surmounted by an eagle in right hand,
left arm at side; grain ear, bunch of grapes to left, monogram under throne
/ Lion attacking bull above double row of turreted walls.
Ex Fenzl


Kingdom of Macedon, Alexander III 'the Great' AR Tetradrachm. Struck under Stamenes or Archon. Babylon, circa 324/3 BC. Head of Herakles to right, wearing lion's skin headdress / Zeus Aëtophoros seated to left, holding sceptre; AΛEΞANΔPOY to right, monogram over M below throne. Price 3599; Müller 670. 16.68g, 27mm, 2h.
Ex Roma.

And further, the Alexander tet above and this one were the models for the Mytilene coin below them.

Macedonian Kingdom, Philip II AR Tetradrachm. Pella mint, ca 354-349 BC.
Laureate head of Zeus right / ΦIΛΛIΠOY, Philip II, diademed & in kausia, on horseback left, raising right hand
22-24 mm., 13.68g.
Ex N&N Collection


Mytilene c. 332 BCE.
EL Hekte 10,5 mm 2,57g 12h
Aulock1711 HGCS. 5/1029 (R2)

 

Thank you for your interesting post, @John Anthony — When I first read the title of your post “Post A Coin And Its Imitation” and before clicking on the content of the thread, my mind went to thoughts of hilariously obvious imitations and fakes.

 

Peroz


Versus Indo-Sassanian

 

Just one example in my collection but I find it very interesting.

 

Here's an example of a coin that could suffer its own indignities before imitation even began to cloud the issue. AEthelred II, the iconic 'Long Cross' issue of the height of the Danegelds. Moneyer Dreng on Lincoln. ...Ironic (as I've remarked before ...somewhere) that a coin with an Anglo-Danish moneyer, from the middle of the English Danelaw, elicited so much skepticism among first-generation Danes. Peck-marks on the scale of performance art.


Followed by my two fragmentary imitations, probably Swedish, c. first half of the 11th century.

 

Interesting thread!

First the "original", then the imitation.


Classical owl:

Athens



Philistia





Intermediate owl:

Athens



Sabakes (Persian Satrap)





Tetradrachm, Dionysus type:

Thrace



Eastern Celts

 

...Oh, I get it, within the series. I was hoping for something Arabian or Phoenician....
(Edit: ) Was there a time lapse before you posted the non-Attic ones? Didn't see those the first time. ...But anyway, it's cool how you're taking this stuff both east and west of the origin point.

 

Tribute Penny of Tiberius

Fourree Tribute Penny


Indian copy

 

Zeno/ Eastern Roman Empire
Zeno/ imitation Ostrogo ths

 

Tetradrachm, Philip II of Macedon, 323-2 - 316 BC



Eastern Celts, horse and rider (or lyre) facing left, circa 3rd century BC

 

Roman Denarius + Eraviscan imitation

 

@arnoldoe, I was clueless about the Eraviscans, and googled this.
http://numismatics.org/pocketchange/eraviscan/
Many thanks for broadening my horizons! Fascinating that they were Celts, but paid as much attention to the Latin legends as some of the ones in Gaul did, that much nearer the prototypes.

 

FOUREE


RR fourée
mule
anon
Q Fabius Labeo
denarius 18mm 2.9g
after 124 BCE
Roma X
Jupiter Quadriga thunderbolt scepter
Cr 159 obv Cr 273-1 rev

A BROCKAGE of the coin the fouree was imitating...NO WONDER that the reverse was mule on the Fourree!


Roman Republic
AR Denarius
ERROR BROCKAGE
Q Fabius Labeo
124 BCE -
ROMA X LABEO - Incuse and reverse of obverse
Cr 273-1 Syd 532 Sear 148

 

The Celts were by no means homogeneous, but most tribes had a near reverence, if not obsession, with Greco-Roman culture. Their earliest imitative coins (from the 3rd century BC) were faithful replicas of the original models. Over time the styles grew gradually more abstract, especially among the Armorican and Iberian tribes.

 

CELTS IN EASTERN EUROPE
AR Tetradrachm. 16.92g, 25.2mm. Eastern European Celtic Imitation of Alexander III tetradrachm, copying Amphipolis mint, circa 3rd century BC. Price B6 (p. 507). O: Head of Herakles right, wearing lion skin. R: AΛEΞAN∆POY / BAΣIΛEΩΣ, Zeus Aëtophoros seated left; no controls.

MACEDONIAN KINGDOM. Alexander III the Great
AR Tetradrachm. 17.17g, 24.4mm. MACEDONIA, Amphipolis. Lifetime issue, struck under Antipater, circa 332-326 BC. Price 44. O: Head of Herakles right, wearing lion skin. R: AΛEΞAN∆POY, Zeus Aëtophoros seated left; in left field, forepart of Pegasos upward.

 

Many thanks for the elucidation, @John Anthony. ...I'd always instinctively assumed that the Celts were less invested in Greco-Roman culture than the Germanic tribes were, broadly half a millennium later.
Fascinating to imagine where the Celts, east and west, might have gone with this, if they'd had the chance to evolve, like the Germanic tribes did in the west. ...In that context, I promise you, the Classical tradition never lost its cachet during the whole course of the Middle Ages. Even the chroniclers of, for instance, the 10th and 11th centuries (during or near the nadir of western Europe), like to quote and allude to Classical Roman authors. Yes, they're showing off, and No, their Latin usually doesn't win any prizes (I know this only by reputation), but it's front and center in their literary frame of reference.