I don't know what happened

I don't know what happened. Some of you might remember that it was determined here that my 09 was altered or stored improperly. I kept it in the manila envelope it was shipped in. It's bothering me because it has changed terribly since I received it. It was a bright coin with imperfections in the field. The imperfections look to me like there may have been oxidation spots at one time and the toning which occurred since arrival leads me to believe the coin was altered some way. It is not good. I know.

 

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Very saddening to see this. Red copper is extremely reactive and tends to change color rapidly. I store any raw copper in Guardhouse flips, even then there's no guarantee.

 

Killing me

 

I think it was cleaned or 'preserved' at one time. By looking at the second picture - at the carbon spots, then look at the top picture you can see the same pattern but no carbon spots. I think that the carbon was removed at one time then came back.

 

Would any of the TPG conservation services be of any help to this poor boy?

 

IMHO the acids from the manila envelope affected this coin. Never store coins in an envelope.

 

Kraft paper envelopes and manilla envelopes will rapidly tone coins if left in them for periods of time. Kraft paper is on the brown side of yellow, manilla is on you orange side of yellow, but either way the chemical process to make the paper leaves acid and sulfur behind that will tone the coins relatively quickly.

That said where your worst spots developed, you can see hint of it in the original picture, I believe the coin was treated/cleaned to remove toning and leaving it in the envelope just made it come right back.

 

In addition to using good quality flips I also soak all my copper coins in Xylene prior to putting them into the flips. Never paper envelopes.

 

Follow me for, what not to do. Story of my life.

 

Hmm, I'm concerned now. I use various sizes of mini ziplock bags for jewelry. I kinda figured if they were meant for gold and silver jewelry they'd be good for coins too. Should I switch to something else?

 

We've all been there and that's how we learn from each other.

 

I think I gave it an acetone bath before putting it away. I really don't remember.

NO. They are not. Soft plastic has PVC's It's called plasticized and I don't even want to store my food in soft plastic ziplocks anymore. I don't care what Ziplock says.

 

Polyethylene and polypropylene plastic have no PVC, no chlorine at all. The Ziploc bags are safe for food or coins, but their flexibility will not store coins or even jewelry more than a few grams very well due to it physical strength and do not heat seal well, but Ziploc seems to hold for household needs. Jim

 

everywhere I see it, it really depends on the zipper plastic bag, Ziplocks are designed to be food safe, the little jewelry zip baggies, maybe not so much depending on how the baggies were made, which you might struggle to find out.

PVC is bad, polyethylene and polypropylene aren't bad.

Best to keep in mind, if jewelry tarnishes, they clean it, no biggie. It is a big deal for your coin though. I've heard of people doing a layered approach of using the for sure inert 2x2s, then storing them in a ziplock with desiccant for added protection, using a 'layers" method to block out gasses and moisture. seems a bit extreme to me, but people say these methods work.

 

the pictures of the red coin shows the same spots and the red is very grainy so it looks played with to me and not original surfaces. I agree that the envelope contributed to the quick turn of the color and make the toning/carbon spots to come back.

 

Plasticizers? halogens? chlorides? exudation?

 

I can heat seal ziplocs, I have a Foodsaver and do it all the time using Ziplocs.

 

That was my impression as well. The coin was mistreated before you ever got it.

 

I was thinking that it might have been worked on when I saw the grainy red surfaces. That indicates that the piece was made red again by dipping it in a mild acid. This type of coin is very frustrating because it is almost never stable. It will probably turn, no matter what you do.

I would avoid using any type of coin envelope for red copper. You never know what might be in the paper, even if it says it's sulfur free. The best devices are slabs or Capital Plastics holders. Next are safety flips which have no PVC. In all cases you have store the coin in an atmosphere that has consistent temperatures. Some bank safe deposit boxes can fail you on that score.



I have owned this piece for over 20 years, and it's NGC certified MS-65, Red. Knock on wood, but it has not changed color over that period of time. If you would like to try again, I would suggest looking for a certified coin in an old slab(at least 5 or 6 years).

Don't buy anything that has been certified recently. The services are not great at catching something that has been dipped recently. if the coin has remained stable for a number of years in the holder, chances are, with proper storage, it will hold up for you.