6000 Silver Coin Hoard from the 15th Century

This article appeared in KOMONEWS yesterday. The coins were buried in a clay pot in an Upper Austrian farm.

https://komonews.com/news/offbeat/priceless-cache-of-6000-ancient-coins-found-under-farm

 

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Wow! Definitely Wow!
Does anyone know Austrian Law for a treasure find?

 

Why would anyone report these finds? In most cases the coins get taken away.

 

Why not report them? 1) There are still good citizens, honest and law abiding people. 2) If the inventor is not himself a coin expert, he has no clue about the potential value of the coins and will sooner or later ask other people who will immediately understand this is an unreported hoard. No more secret ! How can you sell 6000 medieval coins w/o raising suspicion ? 3) If the inventor is in a country where authorities are notoriously corrupt (I don't think it is the case in Austria), he will be stripped of the entire hoard for no profit but trouble.
If the coins were gold ones, there would be a risk he trades them just for the gold value. But with debased silver, no risk...

 

GenoLR raises good solid points concerning the coin hoard, honesty is always the best policy . On the other hand, like Inspector43, I'd be tempted to keep my mouth shut for the time being & stash some of the hoard for myself . Is the government really going to miss 500 or a 1,000 coins from the hoard . Sometimes it's hard to fight off moral weakness .

 

When the hoard has been studied and published, the inventor can legally keep a part of it for himself if he wants. Especially with this kind of hoards, made of relatively common coins (which are not of the 15th but of the late 13th c. judging from the sample in the picture). It depends of the country's legislation of course. It is not for "the government" (who doesn't give a damn) but for the scientific community! If you report your hoard, do not forget that your name will be cited in the beginning of the publication about the circumstances of the discovery. That's fame!

 

While I admit that I would spend a little time with the hoard myself, and cull out a few prime specimens, reporting the find serves the scholarship of coin history, and ultimately supports coin collecting.

 

I have seen and read over and over again, how a hoard of coins, gold, silver, any other thing of value is stripped from the hands of the finder with little or no recognition and especially, no reward of any kind. Small items such as this hoard will begiven to a Museum and a few of the coins maybe or not be displayed with a little card next to it to indicate what it is (to the best of their knowledge). The rest of the hoard is put into a box with an indication on a loosely attached card saying the same thing as the card with the coins that are displayed. A curator of the museum keeps a record of everything that is on display as well as the items in storage. The items in storage will very seldom, if ever, be displayed, or even noted on the card with the displayed item. Supposedly, all items at the museum are to be given an identifying alphanumeric reference number and spot inventories are also supposed to be made to keep employees and/or visitors of the museum honest and accountable.
As a realist, I doubt that Museums rarely follow a procedure as I referenced. They will tell the country's "Secretary" (for lack of a better title) the result of their inventory. If there are any discrepancies, the country's "FBI" (or whatever their countries internal law enforcement is called) will be assigned to investigate the discrepancies.
There was once an incident in the Smithsonian, where an inventory was taken and compared to the original inventory and confirmed that many items had been removed from the Museum. During their inventory and investigation, they decided to speak to all current, retired or terminated employees. One of the former employees was a "custodian" in an area that had a large number of missing items. The FBI decided to make a surprised visit so not to give the former custodian time to remove any items that he may have stolen.
Sure enough, when they surprised him (with a legal search warrant), he had displayed many of the items that had been stolen.
When he was asked why he stole the items, he answered that the items had been sitting in storage for many years and sometimes as much as 100+ years and that he felt that at least one person would enjoy looking at them. Many items were recovered, but they found that several of the Museum's employees also removed stored items. Some were kept, and many of them were sold.
I don't remember the details, but there were several employees, mostly custodians and housekeeping employees that were also found guilty of misappropriation of valuable items and collections. Many items recovered were coins. The first retired employee mentioned was given a suspended sentence because he helped to recover everything he brought home. Those employees and former employees that cooperated with law enforcement, were given suspended sentences, or light sentences. Those that stole and sold the items, were given a year or less, but all that were still working, were terminated. The purchasers of the items were given stiff sentences.
After this fiasco, the Smithsonion spent over a million dollars for the installation of a security system, and an annual review for $100,000 each year. All employees were given lie detector tests. Many of them were terminated. The Director was held culpable and was also terminated.
Great story, isn't it. Don't look it up. I write fiction. This was a part of one that I wrote, but was rejected by three publishers. I hope you enjoyed the story. Only part of it was true. The custodian that took things home is true.

 

LOL. Corruption is a plague. I was first very surprised such a story could have happened in the Smithsonian, were employees are paid decent living wages, until I read the end of your post. In some third world countries it is a completely different story, even if there are also honest people and curators with a strong sense of integrity and common interest. Do not think hoards stored in research institutes are forgotten under dust : they are studied, sometimes re-published when their first publication was unsatisfying.

 

Let the government bureaucrat confiscate the find from you without any compensation for the finder but plenty of corruption from the bureaucrat(s) and related "caretakers." I'm sure the bureaucrat(s) will do quite well with the confiscated items, and feather their nest beautifully.

 

While the coins shown are common 13th and 14th century pieces, hopefully there will be some dated 15th century pieces in the hoard. Keeping my fingers crossed .

 

The Portable Antiquities Scheme in the UK works rather well - finders are compensated at a fair market value. I own a 17th century Irish token that was reported by the finder who had to secure an export permit to ship it to me. It was significant because it demonstrated a trade route in rural Shropshire in the north of England. My token was reported not as a significant value find, but rather a historically significant find.

 

We like to cultivate a healthy attitude to the preservation, study and celebration of our shared cultural heritage here in the murky backwaters of the Old World, dear boy.

 

I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this forum advocate stealing from dealer tables at coin shows. As an armchair philosopher, I have difficulty understanding the moral or ethical difference between that sort of theft and the withholding of part or all of a treasure hoard that by law belongs to someone else. The 'cultural property' crowd regularly insinuates that all ancient coin collectors are thieves. I like to think that they are wrong.

A recent headline, more or less on-topic: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tees-58803891

 

It's easy to take the moralizing high rode dear boy, when you're not involved in a situation like this. Suppose the farmer who owned the land that this treasure was found on instead found an antique diamond ring ? Would you then hand it over to the Cultural Property Authorities, I really doubt it....

 

Decent living wages IMO does not guarantee honesty or integrity.

 

Not really, I'm a metal detectorist of 16 years experience - with a few of my choice coins now safely esconced in the BM/Museum of London. So actually, I understand extremely well the 'situation' concerning the discoveries of nice coins or hoards.

Have a lovely rest of your day

 

It sounds like many "detectorists" happily walk the fields in a labor of love for their local government and museums.

 

It sounds like you're lamentably ill-informed, or don't really know what you're talking about.

Here in England and Wales, 100,000+ finds are reported and recorded every year. Of these, approximately 98-99,000 are returned to their finders after recording. I should add, these are VOLUNTARILY handed in. Only 1000 of those 100,000 are those that legally have to be - and of those 1,000 only around 300-400 are purchased by museums - with the finders/landowners being duly compensated.

So of all the finds reported here, only 0.3-0.4% don't go back to the people that discovered them - and they're rewarded for their good fortune.

Come on, have another go! I only do this for a living - after all

 

Are you saying that the news outlets are only telling us part of the story?