Corny Question (RIC and "cornucopiae")

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Gavin Richardson, Jul 25, 2017.

  1. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    TL; DR: Does anyone have a theory on why RIC editors use the plural cornucopiae so consistently, even for reverse types in which only one cornucopia is held?

    In RIC descriptions, the editors almost always use the plural form of cornucopia, “cornucopiae.” E.g., “Felicitas standing left holding caduceus and cornucopiae.” Sometimes indeed there is more than one cornucopia. But often the coin reverse just shows one “horn of plenty,” as in the statue I photographed in the Naples museum a few years ago.

    IMG_6416.JPG

    Does anyone have a theory on why RIC editors use the plural cornucopiae so consistently, even for reverse types in which only one cornucopia is held?

    See, for example, the description of this coin recently gifted me by @jamesicus. I just see one cornucopia there. Why the plural? Those RIC editors probably dreamed in Latin, so it seems unlikely that they'd make a language error.

    upload_2017-7-25_10-2-25.png

    Screenshot 2017-07-25 09.56.11.png
     
    Sulla80, Ryro, Bing and 4 others like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Nerva

    Nerva Well-Known Member

    I hadn't thought it of it before, but an excellent question!
     
  4. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    I remember looking this up once, but can't remember in detail what I dug up. I'm under the general impression that cornucopiæ is Latin and singular. Wouldn't the plural of cornucopia just be cornucopias? I'm sure someone will come along and sort this out shortly :).
     
    Curtisimo and Gavin Richardson like this.
  5. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    I don’t have a Latin dictionary at hand, but I think I’ve figured it out from this online Lewis & Short entry for cornu:

    cornū, ūs …

    I Lit., a hard and generally crooked growth upon the head of many mammiferous animals (very freq. in all periods and species of composition), ...Of the antlers of a stag, Ov. M. 3, 194; 10, 111; Verg. A. 10, 725 al.: Cornu Copiae (less correctly, but freq. in late Lat., as one word, Cornūcōpĭae, and twice Cornūcōpĭa, ae, f., Amm. 22, 9, 1; 25, 2, 3), acc. to the fable, the horn of the goat Amalthea placed in heaven, Greek Κέρας Ἀμαλθείας (v. Amalthea), the emblem of fruitfulness and abundance, Plaut. Ps. 2, 3, 5; Gell. 14, 6, 2; cf. Hor. C. 1, 17, 16; id. C. S. 60; id. Ep. 1, 12, 29; Ov. M. 9, 88.—


    As two words, cornu copiae, the “copiae” would be in the genitive case, with the calque translation of “horn of plenty.” So I think where I see a plural “cornucopiae,” the RIC editors see “cornu copiae,” but just squish the two words together. So really, it’s not a plural exactly, but a one-word coupling of a nominative (cornu) and genitive (copiae).

    If anyone has a bit of Latin, does that make sense?
     
  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Gavin beat me to it. If you want to get ridiculous about it the plural would need to be formed on Cornu making it Horns of Plenty and the plural of a fourth declension neuter noun would be Cornua but I do not recall seeing cornuacopiae. The era of arguing over points of grammar has been dying a slow death along with people of my generation who were proud to be called pedantic. Trying to make sense out of English, Latin, pronunciation and many other things that were once so very important is falling aside in popularity.
     
  7. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Too bad. :joyful:

    Thanks for confirming the explanation. This hopeless pedant can sleep so much better now!
     
    Nicholas Molinari likes this.
  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Well. I learned something today!

    I wonder if I can somehow work this in to conversation at work today. Hmm. It would be a stretch. :D
     
  9. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    If you can work this into a conversation at work, you probably need to change jobs.
     
  10. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Interesting question and thanks for the thread Gavin. I've often been confused over this myself. I'm afraid my 3 years of high school Latin aren't helping me out.
     
    Gavin Richardson likes this.
  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Try the plural of teaspoonful (teaspoonsful). Many middle formed plurals are often hyphenated (runners-up, passers-by).
     
    Sulla80 and Gavin Richardson like this.
  12. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    The -ae ending is not a plural; it's the genitive case inflectional ending. It's the "of" in "horn of plenty."

    Cornu is the singular for "horn"; cornua is the plural. Cornuacopiae is the plural of cornucopiae. "Horns of plenty."
     
    DonnaML, Sulla80, cmezner and 3 others like this.
  13. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    I think the correct Latin forms are as RC states.

    In my opinion, however, "cornucopiae" has become an English word so no longer needs the Latin case endings. I write simply "cornucopia" singular, and "cornucopias" plural.
     
  14. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    Another word with this problem is triskeles.

    In numismatics, 'triskeles' is singular. Wikipedia and Wiktionary considers the word to be 'triskele'. 'triskeles' is their plural for 'triskele'.
     
    Sulla80 and Ryro like this.
  15. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I feel like it’s difficult to argue correct grammar for a dead language, I mean, who’s gonna correct you, the Pope?
     
  16. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    Haven’t read whole thread but presumably just opting for Latin over English plural?
     
  17. Nicholas Molinari

    Nicholas Molinari Well-Known Member

    Ah now I see Curtis said precisely that.
     
  18. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    The important thing is consistency. The proper English is "cornucopia/ cornucopias". The Latin is cornucopiae/ cornuacopiae. When writing in English, foreign words are italicized (or underlined in manuscript). All four of the following examples are correct:

    "figure holding single cornucopia"
    "figure holding twin cornucopias"

    "figure holding single cornucopiae"
    "figure holding twin cornuacopiae"
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
    Orange Julius likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page