Help requested attributing this 1799$ variety please!

Not my area of expertise or collecting and I realize there are many varieties listed!

Just looking to narrow it down AND that it is a genuine variety...

 

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Looks like a Chinese fake to me.

 

No expertise here, but... Those stars look mighty suspicious. I looked through PCGS images and none of them have a wide flat rim like that. Even if they did, how does it wear down to G4 and still have that rim?

 

I’m not familiar with the coin or it’s varieties at all either, but just by looking at the coin, I second what the other two said. Looks very fake.

 

I vote that it's bogus as well.

 

Here is my real one if you want to make a comparison.

 

@Jack D. Young knows it’s fake, but I’m guessing it will help him in his research if he knew the die pairing used if it was made with transfer dies. I don’t have time at the moment, but someone may be able to pinpoint it by comparing to images on CoinFacts.

 

Call up Jim, the forger, he made it, he can tell you the variety

 

Try this ink Jack. http://www.earlydollars.org/index.asp

 

Who??

 

I think it is a Bolender 14. The 1799 dollars are among the toughest to attribute because there are 23 listed varieties.

 

I agree with @johnmilton that this is likely the B-14 die marriage. Also known as the BB-167 and H-14. The reverse is shared with B-21 and while the obverses are similar, the subject coin looks more like the B-14 obverse because I can't see the repunching of Star 2 which is characteristic of B-21.

I agree with other responders that this coin does not look genuine to me, including suspicion over the flat rims. @Jack D. Young, I am very interested in your eventual conclusions over this coin. I note that the photo shows it raw so it has never been submitted to a TPG?

My attribution is derived from The Encyclopedia of United States Silver Dollars, 1794-1804, Q. David Bowers, 2013, Stack's Bowers Galleries

 

I was confused then. I know he's an expert at tracking down fakes, but asking if it's a "genuine variety" threw me off. Carry on!

 

Didn't mean to throw anyone off with this post!

Looking for the closest genuine variety this may have been copied from; the posted image is actually a negative of the actual die I may have the opportunity to review.


Trying to narrow down my search for others struck from these; the mark at the "T" may be a good attribution mark.

 

Looks like the inspiration; thanks both for the attribution thoughts!

 

So, the images are negatives of actual photo of the dies? In other words, a photo was taken of the die and then the image was mirrored via software to present what we see?

If so, that is extremely interesting on a number of levels. First, the devices just don't appear incuse to me but admittedly, I sometimes have difficulties with that aspect in photographs.

Secondly, that might explain a bit of why we see a flat rim when we don't see that on actual coins, although I'm not sure how that would work or even what I'm saying - never mind.

Third, that might explain why the surfaces and coloring appear off. Instead of looking at a silver alloy coin, we are looking at a steel die?

Fourth, can you say anything about the origins of this die?

 

I will report out when I have more information and have seen it in the steel...

 

OK, the story cointinues...

I was told these were "made here in the US by the purple gang before they merged with the 116th street gang. Circa 1960s-70s-early 80s. These coins were made to pass as genuine at coin shows".

Edge die images: