Missing AW Walkers

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by dimeguy, Oct 5, 2021.

  1. dimeguy

    dimeguy Dime Enthusiast

    Does anyone have a source for dates and mints for Walking Liberty Halves known to have missing AWs?
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    There was one on eBay a few months ago...forget the year in the early 40s but was not a proof...adv as "missing AW" but was quite obvious by/in photos that the AW was still partly and faintly visible...was somehow made to look missing and while nothing obvious of what that was, it was indeed a bad job. BEWARE.
     
  4. dimeguy

    dimeguy Dime Enthusiast

    I knew of one for '41. The other day when looking for potential purchases on Ebay found an 18-D listed, but looked altered, so I was skeptical if it was a real no AW. Then, for giggles, I searched it on Ebay and found several different years. I tried to find a site for verification of what years were without AW, but could not find any of definitive nature. Thanks for the answer. I appreciate it.
     
    Cheech9712 likes this.
  5. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    The missing AW is the result of excessive die polishing and could therefore occur on any year and/or mint. The initials are incuse on the coin which means they are raised on the die, and they are raised in a field area. That makes the initials the highest point on the die and the most liable spot for abrasion during die polishing. Frankly I am surprised they aren't missing more often. I would suspect a lot of dies were retired after clashing because polishing to remove clashmarks removed the initials as well.

    Die clashes could also easily damage the initials as being the highest point they would be the first contact point during a die clash.
     
  6. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    The extent of my knowledge is that the famous one is the 1945-P, but NGC also recognized a 1945-D for me once. Also, some of the proofs are missing AW’s. But they don’t command a premium in my experience.
     
    Cheech9712 likes this.
  7. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    The only missing AW Walker that I know of is on the 1941 proofs.
    There are 1941 proofs with and without the AW.
    I happen to have them because they are part of my birth year set (I've got images if you want to see them).

    I don't collect the WL set so I'm not familiar with their varieties.
    My only reference for WL's is The Complete Guide to Walking Liberty Half Dollars by Bruce Fox, 1993.
    I don't know if there are newer or better references.
     
    AdamL, Cheech9712 and dimeguy like this.
  8. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    Revello, AdamL, Eric the Red and 3 others like this.
  9. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank


    wow you are ALMOST as old as Doug!
     
  10. capthank

    capthank Well-Known Member

    I would love to see the images. Thanks
     
  11. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    Here ye be (just the AW area).

    With AW:
    [​IMG]

    Without AW:
    [​IMG]

    As I understand it, the proof dies were made from highly polished business strike dies.
    In one case SO highly polished that the AW got removed.
     
  12. capthank

    capthank Well-Known Member

    That is nice. Thanks for showing us.
     
  13. RonSanderson

    RonSanderson Supporter! Supporter

    Another photo of a proof thats missing the AW, just because I like the way it turned out! At some light angles the E PLURIBUS UNUM looks a little weak too.

    50c 1941 PF full 01.gif
     
    Revello, AdamL, AcesKings and 2 others like this.
  14. Qsins

    Qsins Member

    Funny I can see it in the shine, sorry not familiar with the terminology but just greased fill die like a 1972 no FG Kennedy or other years? Now I'm off to check my Walking liberty's though.
     
    capthank likes this.
  15. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Sorry I don't have the information particularly concerning business strikes. I know it is relatively common for the 1941 proofs. I saw one in a dealer's shop (PCGS PR-64, IIRC) where the dies had been polished so aggressively:

    -On the obverse, only the tips of Liberty's fingers on the outstretched hand were visible
    - On the Reverse, not only was AW missing entirely, but also the entire lower half of the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA was missing.
    - Both sides also showed missing and diminished details.

    I passed on the coin but now I wished I'd purchased it if only for the novelty. The worst case of die polishing effects I've ever seen.
     
    dimeguy and capthank like this.
  16. dimeguy

    dimeguy Dime Enthusiast

    Thank you to @kanga and @RonSanderson for the pics. Those are really cool. I think I will have to purchase one for my set just for fun. I know it probably is considered more a "die state" than a "variety" but I still think it would be a nice, fun piece to have.

    Also thanks to @KBBPLL for the NGC recognized dates as this helps narrow some of the searching.

    I know many people have been mentioning the missing AW on proofs, so am I to assume this is found only on proofs?
     
    Revello likes this.
  17. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    The D and S dates would not be proofs, and it looks like proofs were only made 1936-1942, so that leaves 1941 as the only possible proof in the NGC "no AW" list. I could be wrong of course, and maybe NGC doesn't list them all.

    Edit to add that NGC pop report shows both MS and proof No AW for 1941. MS has 3 total and proof shows 715 (!). I wonder if that proof die was reused for circulation strikes.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2021
  18. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    If I understand/recall correctly it was the reverse.
    Business strike dies polished up for proof use.
     
  19. KBBPLL

    KBBPLL Well-Known Member

    Interesting. If there are MS versions that then were used for proofs, it means they polished it off before making proofs. I thought about comparing them, but out of 300+ 1941 "no AW" on Heritage, I couldn't find a single MS version.
     
    RonSanderson likes this.
  20. Tamaracian

    Tamaracian 12+ Yr Member--Supporter

    The following is the link to an Overlay for the Walking Liberty Half Dollar: http://www.maddieclashes.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/53298446.jpg It takes a bit of concentration (a 3-5x magnifing glass will help) to visualize the clash was due to the 'B' in LIBERTY from the Obverse Working Die.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  21. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    Note on that overlay that the AW is opposite a field area on the obverse. So the RAISED initials on the reverse die, the highest point on the revere die, is opposite the highest part of the obverse die, the field.

    No the NO FG could be a filled die or the field ground down enough to remvoe the initials or a combination of the two. On the Walking Liberty half die the initials are RAISED so a filled die is not possible. Instead being the highest point on the die, it is most likely the first feature to be ground off the die during polishing.
     
    AdamL likes this.
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page