Oops... bought a counterfeit 1882 8 Reales coin

Before starting my story, I would like to preface that I don't really know anything about coins from Mexico. I went to a coin show this morning and picked up a bunch of coins. One of the coins I bought was this 1882 8 Reales coin that caught my eye for $30.



Anyway, when I got home, I started to do some research on it to try to determine its value. I couldn't find any information on the mint on the coin. I decided to weigh it. When looking on Numista, I saw that the coin should weigh 27.07g. Well, this one only weighed 18.2g. Well, that's not good... If I had ever held a real one of these coins, that much difference in weight would probably be fairly noticeable! I then did the trusty magnet test, and it stuck to the magnet. And looking more into it, even the reeded edge isn't right on this coin.



Anyway, this is the first counterfeit coin that I have bought (that I am aware of). And it can serve as a lesson to me, and maybe others as well, to be careful when buying things you don't know much about! I am thankful I am only out $30 for this coin, and I will definitely be more careful going forward!

 

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It is unfortunate that there are dealers out there selling coins like this at shows.

 

He said he was just getting started as a dealer, but I completely agree. It's not even that great of a fake. I knew it was counterfeit after doing less than 3 minutes of research on a coin I knew nothing about.

 

Golly, somecoinguy, that really sucks. Can you go back to the coin show and return it to the dealer? I would be surprised if not. Where was this coin show?

 

The coin show is over now, but it happens every month, so I may go back if I have the day off next month and see if I can find the dealer that I bought it from. This was at a show in Phoenix, AZ.

If I'm not able to return it, it is a $30 lesson

 

The thing about this is if the coin was real I assume it would be worth a lot more than $30, so you have to wonder how innocent this dealer is.

 

Wellllll . . . . Not a whole lot more. I think the intrinsic value (the silver) is about $18. As for rarity, I'm not sure, but I can see from a glance through the KM catalog that there is a vast diversity in prices for most grades, which seems hugely dependent on rarity. Since I'm unable to find this exact coin, I suspect it is quite rare - very rare - if it exists in reality at all. And since it's magnetic, I'm leaning towards no reality - total fantasy and fake.

This is a complicated run of coins - at least it is to me. In the physical KM catalog, this eight-reales line of coins runs about four to five pages - minted in Alamos through Zacatecas. I cannot find any with the mint marks of "Gs JS" anywhere. I see a Ga, GC, and a Go - Guadalajara, Guadalupe y Calvo, and Guanajuato, respectively. But as far as I can tell, there is no such thing as Gs for a mint mark. There is a JS (assayer's initials) associated with the the Guadalajara Mint from 1885-95 - Jose S. Schiafino - but not otherwise that I can see.

Oh, wait! The Zacatecas Mint used JS for J.S. de Santa Ana from 1867-68 & 1876-86.

I think, somecoinguy, I'd bring up this issue with the organizer of the coin show immediately, and let her know you are going to try to fix the problem yourself. But bringing it to her attention now allows you to have an alibi for waiting a month, as well as a witness.

 

That sucks.. I hope you can get a refund 30 bucks is 30 bucks and that crap shouldn't happen at a coin show.. I have to agree with DEA and telling the organizer right away is important, no dealer at a coin show should be selling a silver coin that fails the magnet test.

 

If real, and in that condition, at least 100 or more. A ridiculously low price is the first warning sign of a fake, but of course the OP stated he knew nothing about these particular coins.
He certainly does now.
Carry a magnet with you to your next show.

 

there is virtually no accountability at all.

 

and how does that help you with silver?

 

Unfortunaly, you often don't even know who you are buying from. There is not even a business card.

 

It definitely seems like a complicated run of coins to me as well, and you arrived to the same conclusion I did, that the mint doesn't even exist, haha! I never thought of letting the organizer of the coin show know what happened, that's a good idea.

It is unfortunate, I'm really hoping that the guy selling it just didn't know and it can turn into a teachable moment for him as well and he can be a better, more knowledgeable dealer going forward.

 

The canonical book is sadly out of print and horribly expensive...

Resplandores: Cap and rays 8 reales of the Republic of Mexico, 1823-1897 Hardcover – January 1, 1997 by Mike Dunigan

As is the counterfeit book:

Counterfeit Portrait Eight-Reales: The Un-real Reales (Counterfeit Eight-Reales) (Volume 1) First Edition by Robert Gurney

 

Next time take a magnet with you.

 

Or a scale.
Sometimes they are not magnetic like the eight CC Morgans and two Peace dollars I intentionally bought from my friend who thought he got a deal at $15 apiece. I wanted them as a learning tool.

 

Counterfeit(meaning for use as an 8 Real) or Fake ? and ya not magnetic isn't hard with the right alloy

 

C'mon cpl, Silver is not magnetic. Carrying a magnet in your pocket is the simplest form of counterfeit detection there is, whether coins or jewelry. A magnet and a loupe are the basic tools(an I-phone w/wi-fi also helps) needed when coin shopping at a show, an LCS, or a pawn shop.
Everyone knows that Corporal, so you can......

Drop And Give Me Fifty !!

 

True enough. Silver plated copper is not magnetic, along with certain other alloys
( @serdogthehound ) . Magnetism is not your one-and-only-definitive-counterfeit test. It is simply the easiest FIRST test. A fake coin made from undetectable and expensive alloys would sort of defeat the purpose of a " cheap fake " in the first place, wouldn't it? The crooks would have to be faking a very expensive coin to make it worthwhile. Not to say crooks haven't or won't.

 

will give you 30 bucks