Went to a show this weekend for the first time since maybe... Oct? Decided to space it out hoping maybe the dealers would get some new things. Anyway - I was sitting at a table and couldn't help but overhear the collector next to me going on and on and on and on to the dealer about coins. Not a Q&A type 'tell me something new, that's why I'm here' type dialogue but more of a Show & Tell let me tell you everything I know about coins monologue. I glance up at the dealer every so often to judge if they've drifted into a coma of boredom. I have seen this so many times but never really understood the agenda. Does the collector not trust that the dealer knows about coins? Or does the collector think they'll show 'I know about coins so don't try to pull anything over on me'? Don't get me wrong - that's why we have this forum. To share information among ourselves, be better informed, etc. I just don't understand what the newbie collector thinks they're doing w/the dealer. I've seen this time and time again when I'm at my local coin shop. People bring in their coins to sell but then start telling the dealer 'what the coins are' - I just duck my head and think 'if you don't think the dealer knows the coin, how do you trust to sell it?' But I always keep my mouth shut at shops and shows. Fortunately I've never been at any table or shop when I witnessed a dealer trying to take advantage of the collector by making the coin seem more valuable than it really is or anything like that. I guess it happens. Anyway - just curious about the 'why'. (the collector monologue about the coins). Any thoughts?
Being 16, I do the exact opposite of what you just mentioned. When I go into a new coin shop or show, I act like I know absolutely nothing about coins. I'll see a coin I'm interested in and say, "whoah, thats really old". They usually will shave off like 10-15 dollars on a coin. I always ask a lot of obvious questions and they usually given new collectors good deals. Of course, this only works once at a new store.
That's a heck of a question. I have heard it a few times before. I think it honestly depends on the person. If you have ever met me in person you'll know that I love to talk about coins. I do it personally because It's just what I like to do. I'm not of the mentality that I need to be better then the person I'm talking to by "proving my coin knowledge" but if the person I'm talking to seem genuinely interested I'll take a few minutes to chat it up. We do get people in the shop from time to time who just love to talk... whether it's about coins or not... whether we are busy or not... we have a few selected people who just love to talk. I do my best to be polite and to listen to them for as long as my patience allows which is usually quite a while. I never really have gotten why some people come in and "posture". I'm not sure if it's their insecurity about me and my establishment, or if they are nervous, or if it's just their personalities... but sometimes in trying to feel out the situation they can come across as rude or confrontational. I never really have figured it out... I'm sure I never will.
Wow! I think I would have had to of been there to make a definitive call on this subject, but I will say that some coin collectors (just like other ppl) don't have social class or any other knowledge besides the bit they know about coins. In short, they talk about coins b/c they think they know alot, when really they know nothing and it shows.
I understand and we all want an open ear when we can get one. I guess I'm specifically thinking about times when in the shop some seller will hand coins to the dealers asking 'do you buy' and the dealer answers 'yes' and the buyer starts telling the dealer 'well, this is a silver dollar, this is a buffalo nickel, etc' and I know the dealer wants to answer 'uh, yeah, I know that .. that's what makes me the dealer...' but doesn't. And at the show to which I'm referring the collector was prattling on and on and on about modern commemoratives and different year designs as if he was a contestant on jeopardy or swallowed the redbook for breakfast. I remember being more enthusiastic about colleciting in the beginning but I was also in sponge mode when around dealers and other collectors. I kept quiet and listened rather than holding fort on telling the things I knew. While I have always said this is a hobby that takes two lifetimes to fully learn, surely surely surely the collector or seller grasps that the dealer knows a little more about the coins than they (do). To me it's the equivalent of going to get a haircut and saying 'now, this here, is my head...'
I think it has a lot to do with personality and that this characteristic you describe probably appears in other non-coin-realted situations as well. My guess is that this person likely approaches most situations by demonstrating his/her "expertise" to the other person. TC
I think my trying to impress a person who makes their living off buying and selling coins with my less than one years of coin knowledge might be a case of carrying a piece of coal to newcastle.
There is also just the chance that the person is enthusiastic about coins and when he enthuses he enthuses. I know I have that fault in myself. I'm a fanatic and if I don't hold myself in check I will go on and on and on. And I would do it to anyone including people who don't care and to those who already know what I am talking about.
CoinGal, I have seen this kind of talk (maybe even more at smaller regional shows) and agree with what Matt and Conder and others say. It is not the kind of thing I would say to dealers I know pretty well, but there is a certain amount of nervousness when you meet a dealer for the first time. I tend to be fairly quiet and guarded in that situation but some personalities will just start spewing whatever comes out.
Not sure of the age group answering this post but if you are or know someone that is rather on the elderly side, you would know this is really common with us. I'm rather on the elder side and have noticed this tendency with many people of my age group and myself included. NO we don't think we are smarter than everyone. NO we are not trying to show off our knowledge either. There are numerous reasons for elderly people to attempt to drag on conversations. If you would notice at coin shows, in banks, stores and almost everywhere, elderly individuals tend to attempt to carry on conversations over almost anything. For one thing many of us are now alone and if and when we find someone to talk to, we do. As you get older you find more and more friends and relatives just passing away. Hate to say die since I'm way up there in age. We tend to use our experience, hobbies, old friends and past knowledge for a subject matter. Even notice an elderly lady in a bank line? Usually don't even have to be there since many just want their interest posted in a book. But now there is someone to talk to. Ever listen to elderly individuals at any coin, gun, knife, computer, camera show? Lots of us go there mostly to socialize in the first place. Not many left to do that with and just where do elderly people go to meet people anyway. Try hanging around a bar or tavern when your old enough to barely get up on those stools. See what I mean. I'm dragging this reply out since it pertains to me. So the next time you see someone just apparently wasting time talking about something that possibly could be said in a few words, check out thier age prior to getting irritated. Remember no matter how old you are now, you too will be with us someday.
You make a very good point. If the OP had described the person as elderly, I would have had a similar reaction as you. Because it did not, my general impression was that one's typically way of thinking, behaving and interacting with their environment (aka personality) is often exhibited in these types and many other types of social situations. TC
Just Carl - I am already there (older). In fact, I'd probably be better off changing my name to oldcoingal. I think another trait of us 'elderly' folk is we don't explain our thoughts so well when we first start a conversation. I have NOTHING against a good long extended conversation. In fact, heaven help the telemarketer who phones and asks me 'how are you doing today ma'am' because I'll likely answer truthfully and keep talking rather than hanging up as expected. I especially like the coin shows that offer a small concession stand area where you can sit and take a break, sip a coke or coffee, and yes, talk to other collectors. Share knowledge. Maybe eavesdrop on the next table and hear their 'game plan strategy.' Just as people don't go to bars because they're thirsty... they go because they want company and conversation. I get it. I'm not talking about the talkers. Let me give you a specific example. The pinnacle collector I'm remembering told the dealer 'they made the burnished eagle with the W mint mark in 2005'. The dealer corrected him and said 'no, the first year w/the W mm was 2006 as part of the 20th anniversary recognition.' The collector insisted the dealer didn't know what he was talking about. This was the 5th in a string of wrong numismatic information the collector had prattled off and I was starting to want to leave the table myself before he confused 'me'. I kept waiting for the dealer to 86 the collector but he didn't.
Lots of good answers here CoinGal and Just Carl just made a great point. My boss at the shop is now 66 and he gets impatient pretty quickly at times unless HE'S doing the talking and it is often totally coin unrelated. I am most often the one that gets "stuck" with the gabby ones. Honestly it rarely bothers me unless I'm real busy and even then I'm very polite about it. As much as I don't really care for all of the new quarters (state, territories and now parks) and Presidential dollars these have brought a lot of people into the hobby just for something to do. A lot of my buyers are regulars now and MANY of them are getting up in their years. When I see an 80 year old lady come in with her list of quarters I"ll always greet them with something like "Oh look a valuable customer" or "I'll be right with you young lady". Never fails to get a smile and I listen patiently as they tell me about their grandchildren and great grandchildren. Hey, what's a few minutes of my time anyway? I'd rather give them that than have them getting ripped off by fast talking salesman on TV and believe me I see it when these folks come into sell. Those not terribly familiar with coins are still often very proud of them. To them a silver dollar from the 1800s just HAS to be rare. I can understand that. If I didn't see them every day I might think so as well. Sure there are many that do seem to think you may have no clue. Perhaps they've done some research and they're proud of that. Can't blame them as they don't know how much research I may do on any given day. At times it actually is almost laughable but one has to realize the owner is proud and trying to get the most money when selling. They can actually be the toughest to buy from no matter how many times you explain "we already have 100 of those so we're not paying strong". Also one must realize that some collectors have really done a lot of research in a particular area and may know more than the dealer. There have been many occasions when I have gone to a show and seen a Two Cent Piece that I liked but it was over graded. Might be from a seller that deals mainly in modern. I've found that if I express interest and then politely tell them what I think it grades and why many have said "well seems you know them better than me" and dropped the price. The larger the inventory one carries as a dealer the more likely it is that this may happen actually. Heck, where I work we buy a lot of old stuff and my boss will do it "blind". Then I get called upon to figure out what it is and how much we get for it. I jokingly tell him I just Google "needle in haystack" and it pops up. So, I'm about done rambling like some "old guy" but it takes all kinds I guess. I don't see it changing anytime soon.
I agree - sometimes I get over excited when I actually have some to talk to about coins. I also am smart enough to know I need to listen when the experts talk also. The guys at the local shop are great - walked in today and before I could even get to the cases they handed me the special box and said you want to search these. About the second coin up was the 1793 I just posted - yep the details are not great, but works for me and my set. PS - one of the reasons I hang out here so much.
Not Just Ego While searching for something else I bumped into this mature thread. Since it is too hot to take the dog for a walk right now I though I would give it a read and a BumP. I think such banter expressed on a BB called CoinTalk just gives Grumpy Old Men a chance to express their feminine side........by rambling on & on. Show off their babies, brag up their virtues or poo poo their faults, whatever. To defer to Abe Lincoln, the fellow found on more coins than be amassed by anyone: "Is it better to remain silent and have others presume you are a fool~or present your opinion, thereby removing all doubt?" .....or something like that......
