A few Greek coins to end the day

You have a very fun job, Barry!

The Euainetos and 5 Shekel both have very similar toning (and it looks like the Kimon is starting to pick up some too). The owner must have had them in a cabinet for a long while; my guess is that they're likely being sold by heirs.

 

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It’s the insightful comments like this that make discussion groups so enjoyable.

Barry Murphy

 

Most days it’s enjoyable. This group is part of a consignment of about 500 coins, most collected in the 80’s. Looking forward to the other boxes when they get back from photography.

the last month I’ve seen about $10 million cross my desk, including 80 coins valued at $4 million one day. We’ve had nearly 300 aureii in the last month, 4 dekadrachms, probably 600 Byzantine solidi and a lot of other interesting coins, as well as piles and piles of stuff and 100’s of forgeries.

Barry Murphy

 

These are absolutely stunning coins. Maybe someday I'll see one in a museum (my wife and kids aren't fond of the coin rooms...)

Just curious, for coins of this class do you also attempt to validate the provenance, or is everything based off the condition of the coin itself?

Or, say I don't include the provenance but the coin is $100k+. Do you attempt to find previous sales of the coin to verify it was not modified in any way?

Neither of these questions will ever be relevant to any coin I own, but it's nice to dream.

 

You can normally tell from the toning if a coin is going to have an old provenance or not. I have a pretty good working knowledge of the coins in the important collections, Pozzi, Hunt, Jameson, Weber, Lockett, Pont d’Amencourt etc… and have all those readily accessible at my desk. Something that looks like it should have a pedigree I will check the standard works to see if the coin is published there. I don’t spend a lot of time leafing through sales looking for a 1950s pedigree in a no-name glendinings sale or something similar.

Concerning $100,000 coins, I will compare the dies with as many examples as I can locate to confirm the coin hasn’t been altered. I even do this with less expensive coins, especially when something about the coin rings alarm bells.

Barry Murphy

 

Sounds like a wonderful consignment. It will be really fun to see it cross the auction block. All of the Dekadrachms are wonderful and the toning is nice. One good thing about the strong prices these days is that its bringing great material out of the woodwork.

 

I still find it hard to accept that we have people willing to pay for even the lowest bulk rate slab prices for you to look at VG-F LRB. I would expect many of them would not be worth the price NGC pays for empty slabs let alone the salaries of whoever handles them before and after you saw them. On the other hand, I suspect you might linger a bit longer on the 'good stuff' which I believe are priced at the upper end of the scale and which you have to be 1000% more certain that there are 'right'.

I once agreed but now I believe that coins in this price bracket should be slabbed. The next owners may or may not have the slightest idea how to handle such coins. Those who do, may well break them out but those who do not need to be discouraged from polishing off that nasty old toning. We know nothing about the next owner other than his income bracket.

This would seem to take care of the claim that these things are rare. Obviously there are many old collections left behind by wealthy collectors and a percentage of them were left to family well enough off that they are in no hurry to cash in grandpa's collection. I'm sure professionals in the business have a better idea of how many other groups like this (plus or minus a few million) are hiding out there. It is none of my business how long it takes between death and liquidation on average. That is the question for the dealers not the people doing the dying. We lost a friend recently who had a large but very specialized collection that took over 50 years to assemble. I wonder if I will live to see it on the market.

Another thing that is none of my business: Do you, with any frequency, have forgeries submitted that you recognize as having been rejected before? Do you keep any kind of 'file' on rejects that assist your 'servicing' them over and over? I would expect the NGC 'Black Museum' files would make a wonderful book of great girth.

 

Even after reading all these responses, I'm still drooling over those coins... being able to handle coins of this calibre must be incredible...

 

yes, some forgeries get submitted multiple times. Some people just keep trying, thinking we might miss it once. Luckily I have a pretty good memory with coins. I still recognize coins I cataloged and photographed 25 years ago at CNG.

And we photograph all the fakes that come through so I have a huge photo file of forgeries.

Barry

 

That reminds me of my second job. I restore antique clarinets, and the number of really lovely, EXPENSIVE and valuable instruments through my hands is astounding.

I was jealous at first, but soon realized that jealously goes nowhere in this field (instruments, art, collectibles coins...). Depending on your role, the best you can do is treat the artifact with care, treat it as it were your own, and don't covet your neighbor's wife.

A high level of care in handling artifacts goes a long way, both in personal and customer satisfaction.

 

I wouldn't take it personally. Some of us just want to hold the history. Most still keep the tag from the slab. I have quite a few ancients with the NGC insert tucked behind my 2x2 insert. I have always contended you and David are good coin authenticators and coin people. I rank your insert up there with the great auction houses.

Just a difference of opinion sir.

 

I don’t take it personally. I really don’t care if you crack them out or not. We get paid regardless. Often times a second or 3rd time. The comment though added nothing to the thread and was just a negative post in what was supposed to be positive thread. Some people just like bitching and being negative. There’s always a few in any group or comment section.

 

I tend to agree. The service NGC provides has more than paid for itself for me.

I don't leave my coins in slabs but I value the impartial, third party assessment. Sure, Barry and David aren't perfect - no one is - but they have found a heck of a lot of issues recently and made the hobby better as a whole.

That said, I emphatically abhor seeing many of the lower-end coins in slabs and the prices charged for them by telemarketer huckster types... but that's not NGC's fault, that's the buyer + dealer relationship failing due to misplaced trust in valuation.

 

I’m a simple man. Never bought a coin more than $100. I’m not yet at the the level where a certification would be useful; when you’re buying $8 antonininani, I don’t need the extra protection.

One da when I’m rich and famous, maybe

 

@dougsmit makes a good point. Slabs do provide a lot of protection and for a high-value coin that can be important. My coins are not at the level where they need that kind of protection, but those coins are spectacular and worthy of handling with the greatest care. I retract my comment to the effect that they, if slabbed, should be cracked out.

 

For a different perspective, way back during those times you know there was some guy with a pouch-full of coins that would've blown this group away.

Even more disconcerting - he used those coins to pay for something completely stupid.

 

Can you adopt me and make me your heir?

 

Thank you for sharing the contents of this box, Barry. I've never seen what a shipment of high-power ancients to NGC even looks like. For me, it is almost like guessing what's on the dark side of the moon. All of the coins are spectacular.

My ancients submissions to NGC, really only two, were far more humble, and mainly with the objective to get another opinion on authenticity.

I agree with Doug that super rare ancients are likely better put in slabs to safeguard against mishandling by non-collectors (or even collectors). In my case this is not really a consideration, except possibly for the Segovia 50 reales, but that is in a Capital Plastics custom holder. Most of my other coins came from the ground and seem to be itching to return to the ground after I am carried out of the house feet first.