What does the Lamda stand for

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Basileus Antialcidas, Sep 29, 2021.

  1. Basileus Antialcidas

    Basileus Antialcidas Active Member

    So I was wondering since ΙΔ stands for 14 what does the latin looking Lamda stand for in this Ptolemaic tetradrachms. Is it a type of control mark?
     

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  3. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    Last edited: Sep 29, 2021
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  4. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    It means year. Nobody is quite sure how the symbol came to mean year, though. It's not an abbreviation.
     
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  5. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    It's not Lambda, it looks like the Latin letter L. On some Phoenician coins it looks like <. More then 100 years ago Barclay Head wrote:

    "The ordinary method of dating is by regnal years. From circ. B.C. 200 onwards the numeral is regularly preceded by the symbol L, which is also of common occurrence in Ptolemaic papyri. This was formerly supposed to be an Egyptian sign, perhaps of demotic origin, but it may be no more than a fragmentary survival of the initial Ε of ΕΤΟVΣ (J. H. S., 1902, pp. 149 ff)."

    http://snible.org/coins/hn/egypt.html#847

    I am unaware of the current thinking.
     
  6. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    I believe it is an abbreviation or shortened form of the letter E, Epsilon, which is the same as the Latin E, standing for the word ETOUS, "in the year". It is formed by leaving off the top and middle horizontal lines creating what looks like an L so on a Greek coin, especially those of the Ptolemies, something like L IB would read, " ETOUS IOTA BETA", "in the year twelve of ..." so think of the L not as the letter L but is an abbreviated E.
     
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  7. Helvetica

    Helvetica Member

    In his supplement to the "Dated Coins of Antiquity", Edward Cohen writes (he's talking about the Tyre Shekels here, but the explanation of the letter is the same:
    "With few exceptions, the Egyptian hieroglyphic L preceded the date when it consisted only of a single letter, such as years 1 to 9, 20, 30, etcetera. "
     
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  8. Broucheion

    Broucheion Well-Known Member

    Hi @Basileus Antialcidas,

    Aside from the reference to Historia Numorun (Thanks to @Ed Snible !), the origin of "L" as a symbol for year (ETOYS) is explained on pages 149-151 of

    Sematography of the Greek Papyri
    By F. W. G. Foat
    Journal: The Journal of Hellenic Studies / Volume 22 / November 1902
    Published online by Cambridge University Press: 23 December 2013, pp. 135-173​

    It's available online if you subscribe to Cambridge University Press. There is a PDF available - with first page missing - at https://zenodo.org/record/1449916#.YVS_qH0pBPY

    - Broucheion
     
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  9. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

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  10. Dwarf

    Dwarf Active Member

    The Egyptian hieroglyphic "L" looks like this, a lion
    unnamed.jpg Best would be an answer from someone really proficient in papyrology - until then I trust Ed Snible's explanation
     
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  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    We should not consider it all that odd that a symbol might be used for a concept like 'year'. We do that regularly for money denominations (dollar, pound, yen etc. etc.). I am a bit surprised to see the suggestion that the L was limited to years expressed with only one digit. This is proven wrong on many Alexandrian coins. Have you noticed that often the lower part of the L symbol is extended longer than usually seen for the letter? The Nero LIB below is an excellent example of this.
    pa0140bb0263.jpg

    This Commodus has the lower part twice as long as the upper LK S
    pa0460fd3408.jpg

    It can also be below the number L K A with the two numbers spread across the coin.
    pa0475bb3412.jpg

    Here it is with a real lambda for year 30.
    pa0540fd3416.jpg

    I like Domna so she makes this list adding nothing of value.
    pa1250fd3425.jpg
    pa1300fd3426.jpg
    pa1897bb3254.jpg

    There are always those who won't play by the rules. Why does this Salonina have a short bottomed L when it could have gone under the IA just like it did on the above Severus Alexander LIA?
    pa2598bb3137.jpg

    We even get an L with a number spelled out. ENATOV L
    pa2585bb2871.jpg
     
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  12. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Does the "L" device as a dating mechanism appear on other Greek language coins other than those from Ptolemaic lands? If so, it is unlikely that it has anything to do with an Egyptian hieroglyphic.
     
  13. Ed Snible

    Ed Snible Well-Known Member

    Here is a Phoenician coin with an "L" that looks like <:
    https://cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=84727
     
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  14. Voulgaroktonou

    Voulgaroktonou Well-Known Member

    Because the Greek numeral for 9 is Θ, that number itself is often written out, as you point out, as ενατου, to avoid using Θ, which is the initial letter in the word death:Θανατος. However, there are other examples where the number is written fully out without any seeming unlucky associations, such as δωδεκατου (ΙΒ = 12), πεμπτου (ε = 5), etc., [or in Greek, κτλ. :)].
     
  15. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

  16. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Some were more superstitious than others. Septimius Severus married a girl because her horoscope predicted she would marry a king but years later came this theta tetradrachm. Of course thetas again became regular when Christianity did away with the pagan set of superstitions.
    pa1170fd3424.jpg
     
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  17. H8_modern

    H8_modern Attracted to small round-ish art

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