Question About Artificial Toning

I’ve been in the hobby off and on for about 40 years. The last time I left, artificially toned coins were just beginning to hit the market in a big way. Prior to this, most toning I saw was brown to grey/black and if lucky one saw some subdued colors blended in those darker colors. Having just returned, what I’m seeing in here and in ads, are coins with deep rainbow colors, ones that simply weren’t on the market years ago, yet the claim is, it’s natural toning. Anyone know how it is, over the last ten years, all these super colorful “naturally” toned coins came to be, when they simply didn’t exist 20 to 30 years ago?

 

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All I know is what I've seen on ebay and alot of them tone doctors say that their AT'd coins are NT'd. Well they may not come out and say it but the implication is certainly there. Others think by using a name like "colorfulsam" then the buyer should figure it out. Some ppl just don't care how they make their money so they throw some grease on a coin and heat it up and presto-chango they have a -toned coin for sale!! To be honest with you this subject disgusts me!! There used to be a guy on this forum who used to post once in awhile (I won't mention his name) but he doesn't post on here anymore. I guess he's busy counting his money he makes off his AT'd coins on feebay!!

There's just something about the thought of AT that feels dirty!

 

They were there then, mainly from cardboard holders or paper coin envelopes, but the collecting philosophy then was "bright white" like the day it left the mint, even if it had to be dipped in cyanide or acid to become such. The pendulum swung towards "original" surfaces, and toning was deemed a way the less experienced collector could obtain such , even if they couldn't tell a dipped or cleaned coin or not. Obviously not true, as many explored ways to produce toning on untoned surfaces and many coins were certified before the TPG realized that it was occurring in such great numbers, so certification should imply "marketability" rather than whether AT/NT. JMHO.

Jim

 

im new to learning this but i have seen diff. like rainbow colors on a coin- well they had 2 do something to it- - cause no more than i know i know better than that- now this coin i have had since it came out really- its a pennsylvania quarter and no -shiny stuff on it- is that what they call clad ?? it looks fake- as far as i know it isnt- any ideas- i have collected coins long time just now learning thanks!!! did they make that kind in state quarters

 

I agree with what Jim said. The toned coins were there 30 years ago, like they were there 130 years ago, but demand for them was almost non-existent. I'm actually more skeptical of coins that are over 100 years old without any toning, as I'd be willing to bet most, if not all, are cleaned.
Guy~

 

Thanks all for the explanations. Makes since why I’ve even seen what I thought was AT in slabs. I also remember encountering many collectors that liked 20th century coins blast white and anything earlier toned. But Jim, when you say, these toned coins were around before the AT craze, are you saying they were around with such vivid colors or more subdued, as I remember? I do remember seeing some nice colorful toning on some real rarities, like an 1804 dollar, which was some of the most colorful toning I saw, but it was nothing compared to the intensity of what’s call natural today. Guess it would depend on what the coin came in contact with.

As for what’s considered AT. I know from the basic chem. class I took, that I could speed up the toning or expose the coin to the right element and produce a desired color, much like what a coin is exposed to in an album or envelope. Would that be considered AT? At the opposite extreme, I can see where painting the coin with a stain would be artificial. But, what about the later example where one is simply helping nature?

 

All I can say is that I tried experimenting with AT when I was a teenager (don't worry - my subjects were all common coins!) and the light bulbs, shampoo, and baking coins in a paper envelope certainly DID work.

I'm going to guess that many "naturally toned coins" weren't actually coated with chemicals, but I wonder if some of these coins were placed in old albums, near sulfur fumes, in direct heat, etc, to "help along the process"....

 

Glad to see you're learning about coins. All of the Pennsylvania state quarters (except the silver proofs) are what they call "Clad", which are outer layers of 75% copper & 25% nickel, bonded to an inner core of pure copper.

 

The rainbow toned coins always existed! What didn't exist was the internet. When you collected coins years ago, you bought your coins at a B & M coin shop. They had toned coins available, but you had to ask to see them. The bright white dipped coins were the ones displayed because they are the ones that sold.

 

Well you asked a question that draws comments like flies to 3 day old roadkill.

Some say intent is the main difference. If , for example, you put in certain albums known for their sulfur content to enhance the tone, it is AT, if you didn't know any better and it happens , it is NT.

Some have made a scientific study of toning and explained the chemistry quite well, but I have never heard one of them who has claim they can tell AT from NT reliably if it is done well. Chemistry is chemistry. Crude application of chemistry can result in toning that is inconsistent enough to be identifiable as AT by most experienced collector. Like many, I have coins I bought 30+ years ago that over the years have toned from white to other colors, and when submitted to PCGS/NGC come back with the Questionable color result. It is more marketability than accuracy as to how the toning came about. Like I said , almost everyone seems to have a position on this, so this IMO.

Jim

 

Lol! Glad I didn't intend to tone those coins, as they did in the album they’re in.

I'd have to say for my own taste, as long as it was done well, it doesn't matter if someone aided nature, thus producing what I've come to recognize as natural toning, meaning exposing the coin to what it would naturally come in contact with. On the other hand, if the coin has been exposed to chemicals it would not normally come in contact with or to extreme concentrations, thus producing extreme results, not expected naturally, then I'd have to reject the coin as "unnatural".

Well, I can see this is a "touchy" subject, as there are purists who do not accept "manipulation". However, if the coin was put in an album known to tone and produced beautiful natural toning, how could any say for sure that it was manipulated? So, why not accept and enjoy the coin as long as it looks natural?

 

thanks i have learned a lot - so much more 2 learn!
i have 2 admit if coins were placed where - like me- didnt know anybetter- it really -- just guess it would b a coversation peace! but in circulation 40 years ago i never saw one guess thats why im sceptical- but still the same coin. to each is own!! happy collecting!!