Counter Stamp (GP) Government Portuguese

I just bought my first counter stamp (GP) that is from the Portuguese Government.

Due to a lack of silver currency, many foreign coins were counter-stamped GP, namely the silver pesetas of Alfonso XII of Spain, to circulate with a value of 300 Reis in the Azores Islands. Is there any more information on these counter-stamps?

It is my first counter-stamp coin. I have not seen a lot of forums discussing them. Just was wondering if they're a desired collectors coin, other me.. LOL!

 

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A nice counterstamp, MR.O I don't know any more about the issue than you, so I'm afraid I can't help you there. My interests are almost exclusively with U.S. issues and some Irish. There's no mention in Brunk's reference of these pieces.

Bruce

 

Always suspicious of Azores counterstamps on late 19th century Spanish coins. They make no sense. This GP counterstamp was used on other coins of Portuguese origin, such as colonial pieces from Brazil and Goa, India. They were also used on older Spanish reales, but when you are looking at later on in the 1870's-80's, there is no reason for them to use Spanish coins. Also, nearly all previous examples I have seen of the GP stamp on later 19th century Spanish coins were either counterfeit coins or modern stamps on genuine coins.

 

I also have no knowledge of these but how did you get 300 reis? A Brazilian 2000 reis was issued at this time and was of the same size and weight. My Krause shows that these countermarks were applied to contemporary crowns around 1887. Most of the crowns seem to be dated in the 1810 to 1840 period.

 

I love counterstamps and have 2 of these. I haven't done anything with this one but I sent the U.S. to NGC and they called it "Questionable Authenticity "

 

"Questionable authenticity" is being kind. The first one, the concave mark on the opposite side of the stamp is a common sign on modern copies of older counterstamps.
The second one on a US half is simply ludicrous. Likely that both the host coin and c/s are modern.

 

I'm not sure how anyone at any time can put a small round stamp in one side of a coin and NOT have some secondary impact on the opposite side. The bust half is definitely not modern though the counterstamp could be.

 

I didn't mean the impact mark on the opposite side being there is a problem, I meant that it's a concave looking mark. That is something often seen with modern forgery counterstamps.

 

I'm not doubting you, but I would think the market for these would be minuscule and thus an unlikely candidate for counterfeiting.

On the other hand, perhaps I just don't know that market well enough.

 

Numismat is correct that there are a lot of counterfeit counterstamps and these could be. I've looked at a lot of examples of good and fake counterstamps and I'm far from expert on these.

 

The market for counterstamps is pretty significant. It's also easier to take a genuine coin worth $20-$30 and add a counterstamp that makes it worth 5x more than it is to make an entirely fake coin.

 

Here are some examples of modern forgery counterstamps on genuine coins. These were psoted and discussed on the Facebook group "Fake Spanish Coins". Notice how they share the same unusual concave impact marks on the opposite side of the stamp. This is not something seen on genuine counterstamps.

 

Why do these have that concave mark? It doesn't seem like it would be difficult to reproduce the original punching method (although, I'm not entirely familiar with what that method was).

 

Dear MrOrganic
Here in Spain there are lots of fake Portuguese counterstamps. To me, your peseta can be a fake (stamp) With weight, SG...details about the coin I could give you my opinion about the coin itself

 

I wonder the same thing. My guess is that instead of it being punched on a flat surface, some sort of two-sided squeeze mechanism is being used. Some pieces have an even more extreme concave to the reverse side of the stamp.

 

Actually need to make a correction. That last 1877 coin is not a modern stamp on a genuine coin. It was made in a cast as it appears in the pictures.

 

As in, the whole coin was cast, with the counterstamp already on it? That's weird....

What are you seeing in the photos that points to that conclusion?

 

It's very grainy in texture, especially around the rims and there is loss of detail. The c/s is especially grainy. I will try to find the original picture in a larger size.
Not as common of a thing to see, but there are other examples where the coin is cast with a punch already on it.

Edit: Found it

 

Hi there all. Because of this thread I decided to see if the G/P stamp on the 300r was legit. NCG says it is! I'm happy I sent it out.

 

Although I am not a big fan of slabs, this is a very good series to have slabbed - very nice indeed. Congratulations!

You've made me want to slab a few of my own. Extensively faked, I'm sure some of mine are not genuine. Here are a couple of mine I feel fairly confident about, if only the host coins are so worn:

On a 1721 2 reales - similar to yours, but Seville mint (and much more worn):

On a 1724 2 reales of Luis - a rather scarce host:

On a 1726 1 real:


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