What has happened to the surfaces of this coin?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Nathan B., Sep 18, 2021.

  1. Nathan B.

    Nathan B. Well-Known Member

    Marsyas Mike, NOS, Bing and 2 others like this.
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    Renaissance-Wax, perhaps?

    The flan has some (environmental)delamination exposing a granular surface.
     
    Nathan B., Ryro, sand and 2 others like this.
  4. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    I named it "Selective Corrosion" when I first saw it on an 18-something Bust dime in the '70s. However, on your coin it is too wide spread so it is just corroded. If the smooth surface on the bust is actually wax, then someone did an unbelievable job so I'll agree with the poster above.
     
    Kentucky likes this.
  5. sand

    sand Well-Known Member

    Hello @Nathan B. I agree with @Herodotus , that it looks like some of the original surface and tone have become delaminated. Meaning that, some of the original surface, which has a nice tone, has fallen off, exposing the underlying, granular material. The underlying material is granular, perhaps because the original material was a mixture of silver and copper, and the copper may have gradually dissolved/leached away, over the past thousands of years. The leaching of the copper, may have weakened the material, leading to some of the original surface falling off (delamination). I'm no expert. This is just my best guess or theory. There are CoinTalkers, who know way more about this sort of thing, than I do. Hopefully, they will correct me, if I'm incorrect.
     
    Nathan B. likes this.
  6. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    I don’t think ren wax would be able to be that thick. Every time I’ve used it it’s been rather thin and just barely fills in minor surface flaws
     
    Nathan B. likes this.
  7. sand

    sand Well-Known Member

    To clarify, what I meant to say was, I was agreeing, with what @Herodotus said, about the delamination.
    I neither agree nor disagree, with what @Herodotus said, about the Ren-Wax.
    Maybe the coin has Ren-Wax, and maybe it doesn't.
    Some of the coin's surfaces are nice and smooth, for example in the center of the obverse, and the letters from 9 o'clock to 10 o'clock on the obverse. Those are the surfaces that haven't delaminated, I think.
    Some of the coin's surfaces are rough and grainy, for example most of the areas near the edges of the obverse. Those are the surfaces that have delaminated, I think.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
    Nathan B. and Roman Collector like this.
  8. Nathan B.

    Nathan B. Well-Known Member

    My thanks to each of you, Herodotus, Insider, hotweelsearl, and sand for your comments!

    When I saw a picture of this coin for the first time, I thought: is the surface peeling off, or as the coin been coated with something selectively? I ended out deciding that the surface must have been coated selectively.

    I agree with Herodotus and Sand who have taught me the term "surface delamination." I still think the coin looks coated in something, though. Perhaps it's a bit of both. There is some delamination occurring on the coin, but perhaps there is also a coating of something, too.
     
    sand likes this.
  9. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    The "coating" may be horn silver. It has that telltale purplish tinge.
     
  10. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    As a follow-up to my strong opinion against Ren Wax:

    Here's my most extreme before an after with the Ren Wax.
    IMG_0348.jpeg
    IMG_0354.jpeg
    As you can see, in no area did the Ren Wax add any significant layer of anything to the coin. It filled in very minor surface flaws and pits, but the stuff simply is not dense enough to be able to be built up in any significant amount.

    Even if it was dense enough to be built up, it would be like candle-wax, and easily removed with a fingernail or toothpick.

    There's the possibility of a rather more sturdy and hard substance, maybe paraffin wax or a type of varnish, but I highly doubt it's any temporary substance; any temporary substance would be easily removed via soft, mechanical means.

    The test would be thus: use your fingernail and attempt to pick at the edges of the "lamination." It if flakes off easily, it's some sort of wax or varnish. If it does not, then it's more likely a break in the patina, some horn silver, or another metallic situation.


    For example of a patina break, I have this Hadrian which once had a smooth, glossy dark green patina. This patina was broken by what I assume is a failed attempt at electrolysis.
    s-l1600.jpg
    This is somewhat similar to yours, as it looks like there is an artificial substance deposited on top of the coin. However, it wholly solid, and no amount of mechanical forces, short of grinding it down, would be able to remove thet top layer.
     
    Marsyas Mike and Bing like this.
  11. Macromius

    Macromius Well-Known Member

    Original patina has come off on edges. Not an unusual phenomenon. Nothing to do with Renwax or electrolysis. Patina, which is sometimes like the coating on a peanut m&m can chip off, corrode off, or just wear off in spots. The part you don't like is natural, even desirable. Lots of different types and thicknesses of patinas. Care must be taken to preserve what is left as it is protecting what's underneath it. Don't try to take it off.

    You are going too far if you do!
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page