Henry who?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by clanger, Sep 2, 2021.

  1. clanger

    clanger Well-Known Member

    It's detecting season here again in the u.k, and once more I need your help! I've managed to narrow this coin down to Henry VI, Henry V or Henry VI (just joking!), seriously though I am struggling to identify it. I do know it's Canterbury mint, but is it a small groat or large half groat? It's been clipped. Weighs 1.5 grams and has a diameter of 20mm. I'm really looking forward to hearing from you all! obverse.JPG reverse.JPG
     
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  3. John Conduitt

    John Conduitt Well-Known Member

    20mm is halfgroat size. I might be wrong (and it is very easy to be very wrong with these), but just by it being Canterbury makes it Henry VII. Henry VI only minted coins in London, York, Calais, Durham and Bristol. Henry IV only minted in London and Calais, and Henry V only in London.

    It would be Class IIIb, North 1712 and Spink 2210 as it has rosette stops. The dates are 1493-1499. The mintmark on the reverse appears to be lys. Well, not tun anyway.

    Here is a Henry VI. Very different, obviously.

    Henry VI Halfgroat, 1431-1433
    upload_2021-9-2_17-59-45.png
    Tower. Silver, 20-22mm, 1.79g. Pinecone-mascle. HENRIC DI GRA REX ANGL Z F. POSVI DEVM ADIVTORE MEVM. CIVITAS LONDON (S 1876).
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  4. clanger

    clanger Well-Known Member

    Thanks so much for this info and identification! The more I pored over books the more confused I became! I shall make notes regarding the mints, 'very' helpful. Thank you again.
     
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  5. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Size must match weight or one has to consider a modern replica if they both do not correlate

    https://coinquest.com/cgi-bin/cq/coins.pl?coin=10400
    PENNY: 0.5 gram
    THREEHALFPENCE: 0.75 g
    HALF GROAT: 1.0 g
    THREEPENCE: 1.5 g ===19-20mm
    GROAT: 2 g
    SIXPENCE: 3 g ===24.5-26.5mm
    SHILLING: 6 g
    HALF CROWN: 15 g
    CROWN: 30 g
     
  6. Yorkshire

    Yorkshire Well-Known Member

    It's not a replica
     
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  7. robp

    robp Well-Known Member

    The weights and size depend on the period in question. The above might be ok for Elizabeth I, but are irrelevant for Henry VII. As it is Canterbury you should be looking at 1.4g give or take a bit. Some London halfgroats were struck at 1.0g or so, but they were intended for the French market.
     
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  8. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Thank you, well put, I realize the cost of silver changes through time with
    some coins being made thinner and or smaller with more additive metals
    as time progressed.
    229-Edward-I-Longshanks.jpg HenryVI-Lancaster-NGC-AU.jpg
     
  9. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    I struggle with these things too but they're still fun to collect.

    My Henry VII

    [​IMG]
    Henry VII (1485 - 1509 A.D.)
    AR Groat
    O: hENRIC DI GRA REX AGL Z FRA, Crowned facing bust in tressure of arches; crown of two arches, outer jeweled (crown 4).
    R:pOSVI DEV ADIVTOR MEV CIVITAS LONDON, Long cross; trefoils in quarters, cross end 8, saltire stops, ‘coded’ stops 20/10.
    London mint; mm:anchor (upright). Struck 1499-1502.
    Class IIIc
    25mm
    3.03g
    Cf. SCBI 23 (Ashmolean), 363; North 1705c; SCBC 2199.

    Double Struck Obverse

    [​IMG]
    Henry VII (1485- 1509 A.D.)
    AR Half Groat
    O: ҺЄnRIC’ × VII’ × DI’ × GRΛ × RЄX × ΛGL’, crowned bust right.
    R: POSVI × DЄV’ × Λ DIVTO Є’ × mЄV’ ×, coat-of-arms over long cross fourchée; two keys below.
    York Mint; under Archbishop Christopher Bainbridge Struck 1504-1509. IM: Rose
    19mm
    1.46g
    SCBI 23 (Ashmolean), 964; North 1751/1; SCBC 2262
     
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  10. clanger

    clanger Well-Known Member

    I don't get modern day fakes here, but I do get quite a few forgeries of the time, mostly these are Henry III pennies, base metal with a silver wash. Found one a few years back which looked silver, but as it was quite bent it was only later after a wash that I saw between the bend in the sides it was just copper.
     
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  11. Steven Michael Gardner

    Steven Michael Gardner Well-Known Member

    Here are two modern replicas that I have had among some or my Tudor
    coins, they were fairly easy to uncover however the Fat Henry VIII had me stumped until I came across a seller with these cufflinks... Of course most fakes are created of the more popular of the subject King & Queens.
    The size to weight of Elizabeth I + the cute little smirk gives this coin away, as it is almost twice as heavy as an original 3 pence for the period..!
    Fat-Henry-VIII.jpg
    fake-ELIZABETH-I-3-PENCE.jpg
     
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  12. clanger

    clanger Well-Known Member

    The only Henry VIII coin I've ever found was a groat, and a contemporary forged one at that, guess old Copper Nose only had himself to blame when he cut the silver content in his coinage:)
     
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