Questionable Justinian Follis of Nicomedia?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by furryfrog02, Aug 18, 2021.

  1. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Purchased this guy on the cheap based off blurry photos. Figured I'd give it a shot.

    It arrived today and something just seems "off" to me. Mainly the surfaces and the near perfect roundness. I looked on forvm fakes and there isn't anything listed like it so I figured I'd put it up here and see what you all thought. The softness on the obverse/head is in the same place as the softness on the mintmark on the reverse.

    Wildwinds lists "180 combinations of regnal year, mintmark, and officina letters known" so it is a bit hard to narrow down other examples.

    Weight: 16.88g
    Diameter: 31.9mm on the 12-6 axis and 33mm on the 9-3 axis
    Thickness: 2.5-2.9mm
    IMG-3450.JPG IMG-3451.JPG IMG-3453.JPG IMG-3452.JPG


    Thanks for looking!
     
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  3. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Here's a Justinian I follis, Nicomedia, year 30 for comparison. This coin was part of a two coin lot (the other one year 31) in Noble Numismatics Pty Ltd Auction 126, image courtesy of CoinArchives.

    [​IMG]

    I think your coin is okay, but corroded and softly struck through the upper part of Justinian's portrait.
     
  4. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Thanks!
    I've just not seen an example with surfaces like this.
     
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  5. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I see what you mean regarding the surfaces. The coin has been cleaned, removing deposits and whatever patina the coin originally had. The resulting surfaces reveal erosion, cracks and pitting. I think that the metal itself was not annealed properly before striking, leading to stress cracks from the hammer blow or blows. Also, as is common with these later folles, the flan was probably not very well prepared.

    That's what I think is going on with you coin.
     
  6. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..lQQks legit to me :)
     
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  7. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Great explanation. This has turned out to be an interesting learning piece :)
     
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  8. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    I like it. The surfaces are a bit rough, but in an unusual way. I have noticed a lot Justinian folles fakes on eBay, but they don't look like yours.

    In June I got a lot of Byzantines which included this one for Justinian I from Nikomedia - it is a lot worse than yours!
    Justinian - Nikomedia follis lot June 2021 (0).jpg
    Justinian I Æ Follis
    Year 19 (545-546 A.D.)
    Nicomedia Mint

    DN IVSTINIANVS PP AVG, helmeted, cuirassed bust facing, holding cross/globe and shield, cross right / Large M, A[NNO] left, cross above, X u II II right, A below, NIKO in exergue.
    SB 201; DOC 117b.
    (16.92 grams / 35 mm)
    eBay June 2021
     
  9. CaptainMac

    CaptainMac Gotta Love Those Errors and Varieties!

    While I'm not very familiar with Ancient Coins, I would agree with the consensus that the coin has been cleaned. I have seen that if you throw a penny (pre 1982) into some white vinegar and let it sit for around 10 minutes, the surface will appear very similar to this.

    It very well could be something else, but my initial thought was that it had been cleaned at some point when I saw your pictures.
     
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  10. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    Oh, no question about it being cleaned. Probably improperly at that.
    I think though that perhaps that is what made it more interesting. If it wasn't so cleaned, perhaps you wouldn't be able to see all the stress cracks from the strike like what robinjojo mentioned.
     
  11. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Just looks like it was well travelled in its circulation period. Think of the tens of thousands of Byzantines fingered that coin, maybe at the Hippodrome.
     
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  12. octavius

    octavius Well-Known Member

    These are 2 of my Justinian folles , 1st weighs 25.1 gms, minted in Nicomedia , 2nd also minted in Nicomedia , wt. 22.4 gms.
    To me, yours looks genuine. the wieights vary quite a bit.

    1426_empire-byzantin-justinien-ier-follis.jpg 5dnYiLs6B8ba4BjTG3KzRr9N7XcDZ7.jpg
     
  13. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    That top one is museum quality, very, very nice.
     
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  14. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    F.F., Your coin has an odd surface for sure :p, but it's common with the late bronze coins of Justinian I. Many of his late bronzes are weakly struck & when they develop a burial patina the details get weaker :(. I scored the Year 31 example earlier this year pictured below. The coin has plenty of corrosion but it was struck from fresh dies. The green corrosion is hard.

    CNG 490, Lot 339_2, $460 +.jpg
    Justinian I, AD 527-565 (struck Year 31, AD 557/8) Nicomedia Mint, 2nd Officina. AE 40 Nummi: 18.43 gm, 33 mm, 6 h. Sear 201.
     
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  15. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    That's a very sharp strike for that period - very nice!

    The coin has some deposits of verdigris, but I really don't see any corrosion, but I haven't had my eyes checked for over six years, so......
     
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