A question for all you regular Ebayers

Now I am trying to understand this logic, so take a moment to pass along a little insight.

I hear very frequently from several of the members here how nice it is to sell your coins on Ebay as you can get better prices for your holdings than if you were to sell to a dealer.

I also hear from many of you that Ebay is such a great place to pick up coins at levels far cheaper than dealers are offering their coins. Bargains galore await the bidder.

I often here from many of you that prices realized on Ebay should be factored into retail price guides. So if the combination of high selling prices, and low selling prices are both true, how can this be a good thing?

How can all this be true? I very rarely hear that some regular dealer has deals that are far below market. Now my firm sells to a handful of Ebay dealers who make money on the coins they buy from us.

I am not trying to knock Ebay. I am just trying to figure out if it is better suited for the dealer or the buyer.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

EBay is an interesting place. For the unwary it is a swamp, with many, many fakes being pushed as genuine.

As an example of when it's working at it's best, suppose a particular coin would sell to a typical dealer for $100, and would be sold by that dealer for $150 - then if an EBay transaction closes at $125 both parties are ahead.

Occaisonally you run across a seller who doesn't know what he has. There is an item on EBay right now that catalogs at $650, and had a start price of 99¢. I'm convinced that the item is genuine. The listing is three days old and the price is all the way up to $11! If it hasn't gone above that point by a few minutes before closing, I'll be sniping a bid of $330, and may wind up stealing it. In that case the buyer will be ahead and the seller will not!

Then there are the "estate" listings with the standard disclaimer "I don't know anything about coins and I'm listing this for the widow of a friend of mine who was a collector." The coin(s) are misdescribed and frequently counterfeit, or in AG3 condition, with outrageous shipping/handling charges. In those cases the seller will be way ahead if he catches a sucker, and the buyer is a victim.

I know a few dealers who sell extensively on EBay, and do very well at it without cheating their buyers, but I am aware of far more phonies.

Bottom line - EBay is a resource that needs to be used with caution, but does have significant upside potential for the knowledgeable buyer/seller.

PS - It can be a great place to find inexpensive missing dates in a foreign series that are hard to find in the cases of dealers since they usually concentrate on US coins.

 

Well I am not real familiar with Ebay. To me it seems like a giant flea market. I hear far more horror stories than good ones. The good ones always come from the experienced collector. Yet it seems to be standard practice for everyone on the internet to promote Ebay. That doesn't really make sense to me. If it is more common to find bad deals, why send others to there?

I view a few auctions that get sent to me from my customers that just seem plain silly. I posted one about a month ago, where this seller was selling an ordinary 1999 Lincoln, with a portion of the proceeds going to charity. The coin brought over $30. Charity aside, this is just silly.
Now I hope that my comments don't offend others, but why would anyone want to be associated with this type of activity?

Now I do know of a couple of good and honest dealers that use Ebay as a tool to reach customers, and that is fine. I just don't understand it.

 

Maybe this is the example I should have used:

 

That was bought by GDJMSP.

He is definately a well versed collector

 

I edited your post. I have no clue how my name got listed as original poster on your comment. GDJMSP deserves that credit.

 

Here is the type of story I hear most often.

http://cointalk.org/showthread.php?t=1123

While I am sure seasoned collectors can find good coins and dealers, what about the vast majority of people. Are they just sacrificed for the good of the auction service?

 

I have used eBay on numerous occassions to both buy and sell (as a dealer) and have found eBay to be like any other market place in the sense that there are great deals to be found (if you know what to look for), abundant fakes, honest sellers, and outright thieves.

From a dealer perspective, deals can be had by making volume purchases (say rolls of BU morgans, Franklins, etc.), taking chances on private sellers with lower feedback (a gamble sometimes), checking the validity of raw grading and bidding accordingly, and bidding on auctions by sellers who chose to end their auctions at the wrong times - Christmas morning, Easter, 3 a.m, etc. - although this has become more difficult with automated sniping software.

For a dealer, eBay can also be a useful as a tool to increase market presence. Let's say you're normal market consists of collectors of circulated and uncirculated U.S. coinage and you make a purchase of several rare California Fractional Gold pieces. Without the necessary contacts to sell them, you might realize a lower than possible profit. Although you could seek out the necessary contacts and "find the market", one could also quickly dispose of the coins to the right market on eBay for a quick and decent profit.

From a consumer perspective, eBay is a dangerous proposition as you never truly know who you are dealing with. A couple of examples...

1. I have seen numerous fake 1916-D Mercury dimes for sale on eBay from dealers with over 99% positive feedback. The average collector would assume the coins for sale were genuine. And, since the price is often less than "full retail" collectors often assume a bargain.

2. I purchased several rolls of "Choice BU" Morgan dollars for a fair price from a relatively new eBayer with 100% positive feedback. After I won the auction I sent my payment. The seller promised to ship the coins on a certain date and did not. Then he made several more promises and subsequently failed to ship the coins, only after I got the authorities involved did I actually receive the coins - which of course were not what I would consider MS63 "Choice" coins.

Overall, I recommend my customers stay away from eBay for buying and selling until they are "seasoned" enough to recognize fakes, ignore deals too good to be true, competently grade the coins they are buying and/or selling, and patiently and methodically bid on the coins they seek.

 

I don't use Ebay all that much but it does have its advantages. Sheer volume and diversity of the coins listed. No way could I approach that in my local market.

I have always maintained that Ebay is a great place for collectors to buy and sell to each other. As a collector selling their coins, they are much more likely to get a better price than they would from selling to a typical dealer. And, as a buyer, you get a great selection and probably a better price than you would buying from a dealer because the collector seller is not doing it as a business and doesn't have the same concerns as a typical dealer.

I am not bashing dealers (we collectors couldn't get along without you ) but, as Ebay has become more and more a professional seller's venue, I have used it less and less and typically stick to those sellers who I am familiar with.

 

Hey stujoe.

I appreciate all of the input here. I am going to spend a little time learning about Ebay. I have never bought nor sold on that site, and probably never will. As I am often asked about it, I thought it would be nice to give informed answers.

From a little looking around this morning, I see many certified coins from services we all stay away from. Some that appear to have serious cleanings, and two that I am pretty sure are fakes. I have seen many sellers who claim not to be dealers, yet all they do is sell coins. Now I know having coins for sale doesn't make you a dealer. I have seen many overpriced coins this morning. So far, I have not come across a single coin that is selling at bid or less. I did run across a handful of larger dealers that I have shared bourse space with over the years. So maybe I should spend some time directing my questions to them. It appeared that these larger dealers were selling stuff that they would not normally take to a show or sell at their shops. A little lower end than their normal inventory.

So let me ask you all this....

What is the averages for new collectors being ripped off?
I don't mean paying a little too much, because the seller doesn't control that. I mean over graded, bad slabbing company, harshly cleaned, fakes. These things the seller does control.
So what are the odds?

 

I am just the opposite. I think Ebay used to be like a flea market/swap meet/local coin club auction but those days are long gone.

I see it today as just another store-front for every full-time and part time dealer from the smallest vest pocket dealer to the very largest firms. I am sure there are some who don't have an EBay presence at all but I think that number has very much dwindled (especially with the introduction of Eay Stores and other professional features).

It is now a bit different than collectors unloading duplicates that they have upgraded to other collectors.

 

I think the odds are probably about the same for the inexperienced collector on Ebay as it would be if they buying from a dealer they don't know in any other venue.

The advantage, in my opinon, of the more experienced collector is not only knowledge of coins but knowledge of who is good to buy from (from their own experience and from the experiences of other experienced collectors).

 

I have been using ebay for quite a while. Mostly for purchases. I did sell off part of my camera "hoard" using ebay and am very pleased with the results. I believe that I received far more for my equipment while the buyers still saved considerably over what they would have paid to dealers. I don't have the overhead that a professional dealer would have and so can be happy with a lower sale price.

The same is true for coins. I believe that one of the major advantages of online auctions - ebay being the prime site -- is the widespread availability of material. My primary collection is ANA Convention Badges and Medals. Let me assure you that you don't find these sitting around at your local dealer's shop (if you have a local dealer). You also do not find them at the auctions at your local coin club. On ebay they run in spurts. Right now there's a huge offering by on person. Most weeks there'll be one or two items to consider.

I have also been purchasing some ANACS Indian Head Cents for a date/grading set I'm working on. A far greater choice of material is available via Ebay.

I don't think that I have to be any more careful on Ebay than I have to be at my local coin show or even at the coin club auction. Know your material. Know your sources. Take risks when appropriate.

I enjoy it.

 

Experience collectors have an advantage in any arena. A storefront, bourse floor, or any other place. They know how to spot over grading, most common fakes, and good cherry picking deals.
Unfortunately, most collectors do not have this ability. They fall prey to all of these things. I know that most dealers and collectors could care less about a person being blatantly ripped off.

If the unexperienced collector were buying from the majority of regular dealers, they do have some protection. 90% of dealers offer guarantees of authenticity or original. 90% offer some form of return priviledge. All ANA and PNG dealers are bound by certain rules. (The collector can start arbitration if a settlement can't be reached). Most dealers have been around long enough where they don't have to rip people off to make a living.

Now I am not trying to say dealers are perfect. I have met my fair share of crooks in this business.

My only purpose is being able to offer credible advice to the many new collectors that I am able to. I think that the blanket response of sending each newcomer to Ebay may not be the best possible solution.
I feel a responsibility to collectors that goes beyond the simple act of buying and selling coins.

 

as a new collector i fell into the ebay craze of bidding on an auction. the first time i actually won an auction it was like a rush. i bid on a couple of proof eagles an 86 and 87 20 bux a shot. when i received the coins they were toned and i really didnt care for the eye appeal. next i got caught up in the wheatie pennys. buy a 1/2 pd for 8 bux. i thought this would be fun, not really a bad deal beacause i did have fun picking through them nothing but commom dates. i paid for enjoyment. then i started really looking at what people were paying for some of these coins and thought hey i could make money doing this myself. thats when i found this forum and started inquiring about doing business. thats when i really realized that it would not be fair to do this because i dont know enough to do this. my immediate thought was that i would actually be ripping people off because of this lack of knowledge. i think there is alot of people on ebay that do this and personally i do not agree with it. these are not the only items that i have bought from ebay sellers. i purchased some proof sets(that were cracked open) some proof rolls that i got a really good price on. mint sets that were picked apart.
my point is, i wish now that i didnt spend the money that i did because i could have gotten better coins from a reputable dealer. i thought i was getting these awesome deals because of my lack of knowledge. i will not spend anymore of my money on ebay.
i also think that their is dealers of integrity that do do business on ebay, but if you are a beginner and do not know what you are looking at, and basically know nothing about bid prices. stay away from ebay. it will take away some of the enjoyment that is to be had from this hobby.

 

Thank you pog.

That is what I needed. A new collectors thought.

Many good and honest dealers use Ebay. Tradernick is a perfect example. I have dealt with Nick and I recommend him for anybody that wants to bid on Ebay.

Unfortunately, there seem to be more dishonest people there. Many internet users see Ebay as a panacea. This is the be all - end all. When the new collector seeks out the advice of those of us that know the ends and outs of this hobby/business, don't we owe them better?

I don't want anyone to think that I am knocking Ebay, for that is not my purpose. It is just this dealers humble opinion that we all should be striving to improve this hobby for all involved.

 

Buying......sniping at the last few seconds....never bid before that and if you dont get something the first time, just wait and snipe later....of course some things are one of a kind and this wont work with...

Selling......well, it upsets folks, but the item up for sell is my personal property till i have agreed on a selling price.........if an item i have is not at the level I want for it, i end the auction early and relist in a couple days......that has worked so far at getting a good price....

 

Let me see if I understand your logic.

You snipe the coin you want, but don't allow others to do the same thing? Is that correct?

 

Basically......

Now Let me ask you a question.............
DO you give your coins away at a loss or to break even?
Do you pay MORE than what you think their worth when you buy?


ebay is a business area for me........thats all.......no emotions attached.
I have 100% FB on all my accounts if that helps.....no one has been cheated

 

Well at least that is an honest answer. Thank you.

I think that tells me what I need to know about Ebay.