Roman Republic Die match or something more nefarious?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ryro, Aug 15, 2021.

  1. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Auction watching and came across a lovely coin that at first I thought must be a die match to mine, as both obverses look very much alike... maybe too much alike.
    So I did some searching.
    All these coins seem to have near exactly the same obverse, but the reverses all appear a bit different.
    Here's what I mean:
    My coin
    1571400_1607291685.l-removebg-preview.png

    The one that just sold
    02143q00.jpg

    And a couple more I've found
    352_1.jpg image00393.jpg

    Am I paranoid or might these be cast fakes?
    All we purchased from top notch firms. Mine was Numismatic Naumann. The one that sold today was Leu.
    I would really appreciate thoughts from our professionals. Thanks in advance.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
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  3. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    The first two aren't even die matches (obverse or reverse), so I vote for paranoid :D.
     
  4. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

    Crawford notes 28 obverse dies and 35 reverse dies for this issue.
     
  5. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Me a few minutes ago:
    200w-5.gif

    Me now:
    seinfeld.gif

    Thanks so much @TIF !!!
    Not that the one that sold today isn't nice, but it sold for 380€ and I purchased my super sweet fella for 220€:cigar::cigar:. The wild coin-flation continues.
    To show my appreciation for your vote if confidence, in my paranoia, here's a coin I won this morning from the same auction with a bunch of Romans voting.
    I wonder what the graffiti is about?:
    Screenshot_20210815-151948_Chrome-removebg-preview.png
    P. Nerva, 113-112 BC. Denarius (Silver, 17 mm, 3.77 g, 6 h), Rome. Helmeted bust of Roma to left, holding spear over right shoulder and shield decorated with a horseman on left; to left, star. Rev. P NERVA Three citizens voting on comitium: one voter receives ballot from attendant below, another voter places ballot in cista; P on tablet above bar. Babelon (Licinia) 7. Crawford 292/1. Sydenham 548. Nicely toned. Some graffiti and banker's marks, otherwise, fine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
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  6. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Very nice, as is the Philippus you posted. I agree with @TIF that the first two of those you showed aren't obverse die matches. And even if they were, it wouldn't mean they were fake -- 28 different obverse dies for the type is a comparatively low number (some Republican coin types have hundreds of different obverse and reverse dies). So finding a match would not be a rare event at all.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2021
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  7. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Thanks! And I really appreciate the reassurance.
    I blame mainly the fact that they are all off centered in nearly the exact same spot. That and, I believe it was @Curtisimo that pointed out, the Φ in the lower left of the obverseis kinda missing the bottom making them look less like Φ and more like little Roman baby makers:cyclops:
     
  8. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    LOL
     
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  9. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    LOL
     
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  10. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Nice coin!

    The first two coins are close, but with subtle differences on second glance, so they are not die matches, IMHO.
     
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  11. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Well-Known Member

    Tell me about it! The price I paid for a Faustina II denarius at today's Leu auction would have been inconceivable a year and a half ago.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Barry Murphy

    Barry Murphy Well-Known Member

    I don’t see anything to be concerned about.

    Barry Murphy
     
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  13. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Thanks so much! I can't tell you what a relief that is. It may very well be my favorite Republic denarius.
     
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  14. Curtisimo

    Curtisimo the Great(ish)

    Even though these are not die matches it is remarkable how consistent this die engraver was in his/her style (assuming the same person cut these dies).

    This is one of my favorites of yours as well @Ryro . I look forward to seeing where it ranks in December. :)
     
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