Is this a counterfeit pcgs holder

Hi all
I am thinking of buying this coin but am a bit concerned about the slab. I have checked the pcgs data base and the certificate number matches a 1856 s ms61 $20 but there is no picture of the coin on their system. The slabs certificate has obviously moved inside the slab and just doesn't look right.
What do you guys think?

 

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I'm no expert on those but definitely see your concern. If its a fake its a bad one.

 

How much are they asking ?
Personally, I would take a pass on this one . There are plenty more out there .

 

£1200

 

@Lee Gilmore . So, that's around $140 U.S ? That's the problem right there . If it were the "Real Deal" then it would be worth thousands .

 

No it's about $1800 and that's the estimate at auction

 

Seems like the date is shaped quite different than this NGC slabbed example

 

The number is a valid number in the PCGS verification page.

 

Fake holder. Fake coin.

 

Yep. Classic Chinese style numbers in the OP post.

 

look at the date--
very funky looking.

 

Agreed. Is this an ebay auction? Where is it?

 

No it was advertised at a genuine up market auction house in the UK. I have shared that I think this is a fake with them and they have withdrawn the lot. So that's a result.

 

Sounds like a good ending for now

 

Just doesn’t look right to me. I’m no expert on these but I’d pass.

 

Hi

Along with the whole look of the holder and label I would add that in my experience (I am British and live in UK) there are few UK auction houses I would trust 100% to give an accurate value of a coin. Many fail to even provide sharp photos on their sites (and often of only one side). This has made it very difficult during the pandemic to have any idea of what one is bidding on. I have been sold coins as genuine that were not as well been the victim of inaccurate descriptions. In both cases I ended up keeping the items and getting a significant refund.

On one occasion I questioned one item and it was withdrawn so success there.

I would only trust specialist auction houses who have the resources to properly check coins and provide sharp photos and accurate information (on mint, varieties or errors etc.). My personal shortlist is as follows (in case anyone is looking to buy at UK auctions):

1. Lockdales (https://www.lockdales.com/)
2. Spink (https://www.spink.com/)
3. Baldwin's (https://www.baldwin.co.uk)
4. Warwick & Warwick (https://www.warwickandwarwick.com)
5. Chards (https://www.chards.co.uk)
6. Dix Noonan Webb (https://www.dnw.co.uk)
7. London Coins (https://londoncoins.co.uk/)

Of course I am sure there are others but these are the ones I have bought from or checked out personally. I have approached a coin expert at one large auction house only to be told by him that he couldn't help me with my query as it was outside his expertise. Fair enough but the auction house in question (none of those listed) was promoting it's expertise in giving valuations of coins!

I would also recommend Spink for their publications which are held in high regard by many. They mainly specialise in books on British coins (their Coins of England books are regarded as the historic reference) and Ancient coins (Greek and Roman) but d cover medals and some other countries.

Another recommended title would be the Coin Yearbook (https://www.tokenpublishing.com/) - the publishers also cover Banknotes and Medals.

London Coins also do grading and their auction archive is very informative with many images that are of high quality and a great resource.

As always, do your own research and buyer beware!

 

Yes you are right although if it is advertised as a gold $20 coin under the trade description act if it turns out not to be gold then you can return it for a refund normally most auction houses allow one month. I buy a lot from auction houses and as with this coin will do extensive research first before bidding.

 

Even if a legit coin and holder, ask yourself..."would I want one with a label that has slipped like this one, obviously a problem with/from holdering/sealing or maybe from an attempt to enter/infiltrate the holder...and would cost me a re-holder fee and a delay...?" Not I.

 

I'm no expert and I can see its fake, fake, fake. The fonts of date and liberty tell it all. I suggest HARD PASS on this one.

 

Go to the PCGS site and type in the number on the slabbed coin and it will display the coin if it's legitimate. let us know.