Constantine I - MARTI PATRI PROPVGNATORI

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Tejas, Aug 10, 2021.

  1. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    I am very happy with this recent Ebay find. In fact the coin arrived today and I must say I'm very happy with it.

    IMP C CONSTANTINVS PF AVG // MARTI PATRI PROPVGNATORI -- PLC

    Mint: Lugdunum (Lyon)
    Date: 307/8
    RIC VI Lugdunum 260

    I was particularly happy with the large size of this coin: 27mm (weight 6.51g).

    Interestingly, the coin was mailed from Lyon. Maybe it has never been away from home in the last 1700 years.

    Screenshot 2021-08-10 at 20.15.23.png
     
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  3. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Mine is similar but from Trier. The larger size does make these impressive in hand.
    rv4595bb3191.jpg
     
  4. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Very true. My biggest Constantine coin and quite a pleasant surprise. Your coin looks great.
     
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  5. David@PCC

    David@PCC allcoinage.com

    Some of my best Constantine's came from eBay.
    ri215.jpg
    Constantine I
    Treveri mint
    AE Follis
    Obvs: IMP CONSTANTINVS PF AVG, laureate and cuirass right.
    Revs: MARTI PATRI PROPVGNATORI, Mars with shield and spear. S left, A right. PTR
    25x26mm, 6.68g
    RIC VI 776
     
  6. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    That's where I got mine, too. I'm guessing the Lyons mint version is harder to find than ones from Trier:
    12.jpg
    Treveri (Trier) mint, A.D. 307-308
    RIC 776
    Obv: IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG
    Rev: MARTI PATRI PROPVGNATORI - Helmeted Mars, with spear and shield
    PTR in exergue; S in left field, A in right
    26 x 24 mm, 6.5 g.
     
  7. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    RIC_VI_London_108.jpg

    Constantine I
    A.D. 307- 310
    25x26mm 6.8g
    IMP CONSTANTINVS P F AVG; Laureate and cuirassed bust right.
    MARTI PATRI PROPVG; Mars, naked but for chlamys, advancing right, holding transverse spear, shield on left arm.
    In ex. PLN
    RIC VI London 108; LMCC 5.04.008
     
  8. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    I also have one from London with the reverse PROPVGNATORI abbreviated as PROPVG. Are there any from London with PROPVGNATORI spelled out completely?
     
  9. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    Yes, though only listed in RIC for Maximianus, several examples are known for Constantine as Caesar.
     
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  10. Heliodromus

    Heliodromus Well-Known Member

    It does exist from London with PROPVGNATORI for Constantine as augustus, but it's at best transitional, or maybe a mule (after the reverse die should already have been retired). PROPVG is the normal type for Constantine as augustus.

    See "A Doubted London Coin of Constantine I" by Lord Stewartby in Numismatic Chronicle 146 (1986). Due to an error the wrong coin was illustrated in that issue, so Stewartby published a correction "Two Doubted London Coins of Constantine I", in the following year's NC 147 (1987).

    This is the NC 147 plate photo:

    Constantine I Marti Patri Propvgnatori - NC 147 (1987).jpg
     
  11. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Dirk, Your coin has an interesting portrait, especially the way the eyebrow was done :happy:. I scored the example pictured below, from the Trier Mint, over a year ago.

    Constantine I, RIC VI, p. 218, 775-8.jpg
    Constantine I, AD 307-337 (struck AD 307/8), Trier Mint, 1st Officina. AE Nummus: 6.65 gm, 26 mm, 6 h. EX Spink 169, July 15, 2004.
     
  12. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Great coins shown here. Al, yours is fantastic.

    I wonder if the reverse legend with PATRI was chosen for a particular reason or to mark a particular event. Maybe it was only chosen because they had enough space on thee large coins.
     
  13. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Dirk, That's a good question o_O. I don't think it's a casual fill-in, it seems very deliberate. PATRI (father) PROPVGNATORI (defender) looks like an offhanded warning to Galerius, Licinius, or anyone who challenges his position as emperor.
     
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  14. Heliodromus

    Heliodromus Well-Known Member

    That's an interesting question!

    Judging by the profusion of London-only types, it appears that the London mint was taking the lead at the time (c. 307 AD) this type was introduced by Constantine.

    There are two common aspects to Mars we see on coins - Mars the victor/aggressor (marching forward) and Mars the peace-maker/conservator.

    At London we first (briefly) see Constantine using the traditional "MARS VICTOR" and "MARTI PACIF" legends, before replacing these with the corresponding "MARTI PATRI PROPVGNATORI/CONSERVATORI".

    Galerius had recently used "MARTI PATRI" [sic] on aureii at Nicomedia, and "MARTI PROPVGNATORI" had been used by Constantius I on aureii at Trier, but the "MARTI PATRI PROPVGNATORI/CONSERVATORI" combinations appear to have been introduced by Constantine, and appear to have been a deliberate switch, not just a traditional legend used because there was room to do so.

    Lactantius in "Divine Institutions" has this to say about the use of the honorific "father" (i.e pater/patri) epithet:
    So, it seems that Constantine was using a traditionally deferential way to address Mars who he was at that time looking to for support in battle (a role later to be taken first by Sol, then the Christian god).

    A rather interesting aspect to this is the full context of that Lactantius quote, which comes from Divine Institutions, Book IV, Chapter III, and had been written by Lactantius around 303-311 AD (around same time, c.307, that Constantine had introduced these legends).

    Lactantius (who would go on to become tutor to Constantine's son Crispus) was actually referring to this tradition of referring to so many gods (Mars, Liber, Neptune, Saturn, etc) as "father" as an argument against nature (man can only have one father!), as opposed to worshipping the one "lord of nature" (Christian god), the real father!
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2021
  15. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark all my best friends are dead Romans Dealer

    Mars was commonly held to be the father of Romans because he was the father of Romulus and Remus.
     
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  16. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Mine is 25 mm. 27 is indeed large.

    07414863-9171-48C2-8CD8-14B3D9BB10AB.jpeg
     
  17. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Interesting rendition of the eyebrow @Tejas and overall a great coin. My "heaviest" Constantine is around 3.5 grams. Those larger pieces are really cool. Need to add one to my collection soon!
     
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  18. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought "MARTI PATRI PROPVGNATORI" means "Mars, defender of the Fatherland".
     
  19. Tejas

    Tejas Well-Known Member

    I have the coin below, which shows a bust of Mars on the reverse. I would say, that Mars was given similar features as Constantine. It is known that Constantine at times identified as Apollo, maybe he also tried to link himself with Mars. Screenshot 2021-08-12 at 12.26.56.png
     
  20. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    I think he would link himself with anyone that he thought might gain him more power.
     
  21. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    I take patri going with marti. Patri is the dative singular of pater; if Mars is the "defender of the fatherland," I might expect the genitive form of pater, but we don't have that. So I would gloss the legend as "Father Mars the Fighter."

    Coins honoring Mars were struck for Constantine through 315. I've got a long essay on the early coins of Constantine in the works. Who knows if it will ever see the light of day. But here's my discussion of the legends. Corrections and disagreements are welcome. I'm still working out my own thinking about the coin's iconography and legend.

    "Two reverse types honor Mars, with reverse legends MARTI PATRI PROPVGNATORI and MARTI PATRI CONSERVATORI. Propugnator is a somewhat bellicose term; pugnator denotes a combatant; the pro- prefix means that the fighter is going forth to fight, which is consistent with the reverse image of Mars advancing, shield up and spear in hand, ready for battle.[1] While a propugnator may indeed fight to defend Rome, the common translation of “Father Mars the Defender” may obscure the fundamentally aggressive posture of coin and legend. “Father Mars the Fighter” might be a better gloss of Pater Mars Propugnator, and it contrasts better with Pater Mars Conservator of COINX. The word conservator generally means keeper, preserver, defender, and even savior in later Latin; the MARTI PATRI CONSERVATORI (To Father Mars the Preserver) coin shows Mars at rest, facing right, hand on shield, with spear shaft planted firmly on the ground. Here a more staid god stands as Constantine’s protective deity..."



    [1] Certain aurei from the Beaurains hoard (RIC VI Trier 59-63) show only a bust of Mars on the reverse with the bellicose MARTI PROPVGNATORI legend.
     
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