Latest TPG submission from with a real variation of results...

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Jack D. Young, Jun 20, 2021.

  1. TypeCoin971793

    TypeCoin971793 Just a random guy on the internet

    “Authenticity Unverifiable” annoys me to no end. We literally paying PCGS to authenticate a coin, not to give up because it will take them longer than 10 seconds to decide if it is real.
     
    Dima, Cheech9712, Beefer518 and 4 others like this.
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  3. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    While annoying, it is at least better than calling it fake or authentic when they don't know.

    If they are unable to determine authenticity, then they should refund the fees or at least send a detailed explanation of what methods were used on the coin submitted to try and authenticate it and the results. It should NOT be a general policy on authentication methods.
     
    Cheech9712 and Insider like this.
  4. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    It seems that lately there are more details type early copper coins being body-bagged as unverifiable; maybe it is just a sign of the times...
     
    Mainebill likes this.
  5. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    I agree that under some circumstances the TPGs owe a client more than just a determination. BUT, I think the explanations should be driven by the potential value of a coin and the expanded explanation should be an option that the submitter may or may not elect to pay for over and above the normal fees.
     
  6. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Not trying to be rude, but if a coin is fake shouldn't it get a harsh review. I continue to hear all these folks that refuse to see or hear of a well done artist Numismatist DC.
    Yet they give praise to all the contemporary's,
    I personally appreciate both works as a piece of art, we should be condemning the peddlers not the artist.
     
  7. Mainebill

    Mainebill Bethany Danielle

    Had it happen on a genuine S 187 1797. Cracked from pcgs details holder conserved some. Sent back first tooled. Cracked again then authenticity unverified then ngc straight grade vf 20
     
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  8. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    TypeCoin971793, posted: "Authenticity Unverifiable” annoys me to no end. We literally paying PCGS to authenticate a coin, not to give up because it will take them longer than 10 seconds to decide if it is real."

    :rolleyes: Get over it. When you and your buddies :yack::yack::yack: become God's Gift to coin authenticators, you might have a point worth noting. Some things to think about based on EXPERIENCE.

    1. Some coins exist that the best in the business cannot prove one way or the other and top experts disagree on them.

    2. Modern TPGS do not take as long as might be needed (in some cases over a year) to reach a decision they can stand by in court.

    3. It is a great indication of reliability/competence when an "expert" admits that they don't have a clue rather than saving face, bluffing/guessing, and taking your money.

    4. In this litigious era, why should a TPGS risk a guarantee of $$$$ to make $$?

    5. Once a coin becomes worn, damaged, corroded, etc. authentication can be difficult.

    IMO, they knew the C/S cent is authentic. They possibly were wary of the unusual C/S with eagles.

    Hopefully, you'll understand their opinion now.
     
    Jack D. Young likes this.
  9. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    I believe for coins were they actually can't tell if it is or isn't real they do (or at least they used to) return the coin with a "No decision" and did return fees. If it comes back as "Questionable authenticity" that meant it was a fake but they weren't going to come right out and say it, and it those cases the fees were retained. (Questionable Authenticity IS a decision.)
     
    Insider likes this.
  10. Marshall

    Marshall Junior Member

    If they keep the fees and designate it as "Questionable Authenticity," an explanation of why they made that determination would seem to be more appropriate than simply leaving it up to the submitter's imagination.

    But I understand that as a business, the desires of the customers, while important, are secondary to staying in business and making a profit. They are not in the business of educating unless there is a profit to be made from it.

    Hence, I foresee a possibility of fee for explanation service.
     
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
  11. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    In the case of my subject submission "Counterfeit" means counterfeit:D...

    And in my humble opinion "Questionable Authenticity" is not a decision but an admission they just can't tell.

    Authenticating an example as "Genuine" when it is counterfeit just shows how deceptive these latest fakes are...
     
  12. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    Happy to send this one to ICG for authentication!

    This is a known C/S:

    cms.jpg
     
  13. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Good old days:

    No decision = no service was rendered NO MATTER HOW LONG we had the coin refund the fee but not the return postage.

    Counterfeit or Altered = Bad.

    NOW:

    I believe that once the modern dealer run TPGS's were established the lawyers wanted to have some "wiggle room" and came up with "Questionable Authenticity." This also means Bad - at least at ICG.

    IMO, if any service uses Q/A on a coin they couldn't be sure of just to keep a fee, they should be sued!
     
  14. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Jack D. Young, posted: "Happy to send this one to ICG for authentication!
    Yes, this is a known C/S."

    Your C/S cent looks authentic. After a short search, the mark is listed without an image. Not ducking out but it seems to me that any tool and diemaker could open a 19th Century newspaper, find an interesting business, prepare a set of punches (never seen before on anything) and counter stamp a few circulated cents. I'd do a whale with the name of a ship or a Boston sail maker. ;)
     
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  15. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    The info I had on the C/S (no image either):

    Americana.jpg
     
  16. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Wow. That’s messed up. Someone like me doesn’t stand a chance. We try to count on TPGers to get it right. Not everyone is like Mr Young. Thanks jack for like most ct members know the important stuff. Pat on my back…. I knew the 57 wasn’t real
     
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  17. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    Their one of the same. Think there both in it to win it.
     
  18. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    I have sent many a reply in emails, to the reason of why I cant take care of a job, why should a TPG be held to a different standard, they shouldn't. The numismatists should all give there review in the no decision. Or the finalizers notes.
    That would be transparency.
     
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  19. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Pickin and Grinin, posted: "I have sent many a reply in emails, to the reason of why I cant take care of a job, why should a TPG be held to a different standard, they shouldn't. The numismatists should all give there review in the no decision. Or the finalizers notes. That would be transparency."

    :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: :rolleyes: :stop:

    Its been done already. This is what you would get on your "No Decision" coin:

    A refund of your grading fee but not the return postage. And...Wait for it...

    A review of the decision just for the "transparency" you require (please see below).











    THE OPINIONS OF OUR CONSULTANTS ARE DIVIDED. :D:p
     
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  20. Cheech9712

    Cheech9712 Every thing is a guess

    I hear that. Company says why so slow, then tells me to drop everything and report back to them ASAP ON A NEW DIG PROJECT. Come on.
     
    Pickin and Grinin likes this.
  21. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    @Insider we write for fun. A simple note card is all most of us would like. Shouldn't be that difficult right. I know you give a dissenting opinion when you grade CT coins. I don't care if they keep the grading fee's, I asked for an opinion, I expect one.
     
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