Hi everyone, Today's detecting find here in a boiling hot u.k has me stumped. It's a silver hammered penny, same size as the British medieval one's, but it ain't British! All my coin books are U.K only, so no help. It's a bit 'warped' but other than that a soak under the tap was all that was required. I hope someone out there can tell me what it is, please! Thank you all in advance.
Hi Clanger, Hot over here in Houston too. Congrats on your MD find as I haven't a clue either. However I bet $$$£££ that someone in this Discussion Group will know! Cheers, J.T.
This, or similar: https://www.cgb.fr/namur-marquisat-de-namur-gui-de-dampierre-esterlin-c-1260-ttb-,fwo_428360,a.html
Yes - Guy de Dampierre, Count of Flanders, Marquis of Namur, as far as I can see. The only part of the coin I could clearly read was COMES (count), but a search threw this up - the legend fits. With Google Chrome, you can easily translate the page: OBVERSE Obverse legend: G CO-MES - FLA-DRE. Obverse description: Cross cutting the legend confined to three groups of three bezants placed in a triangle. Obverse translation: (Gui, count of Flanders). REVERSE Reverse legend : + MARCHIO NAMVRC. Reverse description: Bust dressed from the front. Reverse translation: (Marquisat de NAMUR ). COMMENT This coin is an imitation of English ESTERLIN s. The STERLING AS s and their imitations were particularly studied by NJ Mayhew, Sterling imitations of Edwardian guy, London, 1983. There are copies with two points before the G Law (Mayhew, No. 15-17, pp. 32-33 ). HISTORICAL NAMUR - MARQUISATE OF NAMUR - GUI DE DAMPIERRE (1264-1297) At the end of the 12th century, the county of NAMUR was attached to that of Hainaut following the marriage of Alix de NAMUR with Baudouin IV, count of Hainaut. In 1199, Philippe, second son of Baudouin IV, obtained the county of NAMUR which was set up as a marquisate by the emperor Henri VI. Gui de Dampierre did not come into the possession of the Marquisate of NAMUR until 1264, when he married Isabelle, daughter of the Count of Luxembourg. In 1280 he inherited, from his mother's side, the county of Flanders. In 1297, he left the county of NAMUR to his son, Jean. He died in captivity in Paris in March 1305. ATB, Aidan.
Congrats on the awesome find @clanger it is a very nice coin. These type of coins, imitations of English pennies with the bare headed bust, are known as pollards. Another type of sterling imitation with a chaplet of roses is known as a crockard. Both crockards and pollards were minted in the Low Countries and more broadly North-west Europe. Merchants from those countries/principalities would journey to England in order to buy English wool. At the time they had to utilize English pennies, and would exchange silver bullion or their own coins. Eventually the authorities in the Low Countries started minting their own imitations of Edwardian pennies. Initially the imitations were at a standard roughly equivalent to English coins, but over time the fineness of the crockards and pollards fell. The first imitations exchanged at a 1 to 1 rate with the English penny, but as the imitations were debased they were legally valued as a halfpenny, before being banned from England. But to an illiterate medieval person it didn't matter as the coin looked close enough. The English crown had to continually fight the influx of these coins. The best site on the internet to cover Sterling Imitations is here: Sterling imitations and contemporary forgeries
Brilliant stuff! Thanks ever so much for all your hard work, interestingly it came not far from the site of a Medieval manor, maybe the court jesters got paid it by the lord and only discovered it's true value when they'd been sent packing!
No worries - a bit more interesting than a regular Henry III penny or something That's just the Google Chrome translation of the CGB page from the earlier post. ATB, Aidan.
...Just getting here. Yep, @akeady is That Good!!! As esterlins go, this is decidedly on the early side, making it that much cooler. The earlier, 13th-c. ones have no crown on the portrait; more often a little chaplet-thing, of flowers or something. The further toward, and into the 14th century you get, the likelier they are to have crowns, just like the prototypes. From that point, the only major variations are the legends. ...Funly, earlier in the 13th century, there are similar imitations, in parts of Germany, of Henry III pennies, both long and short crosses. @clanger, it's So Great that this is a detecting find! To wallow in the obvious, you've got a serious keeper. Congratulations!!!
It ties in nicely then, as Lincolnshire was a BIG sheeps wool industry during the Medieval period. Many thank's for all the info, guess I better head off back and see if anymore are lying around!
Thank you Dvcks! Surprised it survived so well in the ground being in the field entrance practically where all the heavy machinery has been rolling over it for yonks!
Definately more interesting, I've found a few Henry III pennies, chiefly I think because he granted permission for the 'town' to have a fair/market, so more footfall I guess.
