"I Paid More Than That."

As other have mentioned in this thread, the coin market is hot right now. I tend to look at recent coin auction prices and PCGS Coin Facts for coins I'm interested in and in most instances, similar coins are selling (auction bid + buyers fee) for >90% price guide; in some instances above. All coins for a specific year/grade are not created equal with some with exceptional strike/eye appeal going on the high side. If I make an offer to a seller I look at recent sales and compare the coin I'm interested with the others. I want a fair price but also don't want to insult the seller buy continually making low ball offers.

 

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"Price" is a wide-open field. On one extreme is "Greed has no limit" and on the other is the cherrypicker's dream of buying for dirt-price. A "Price Guide" is just that -- a GUIDE only. When I was trying to complete my major-type set of 1857 (13 coins), I found a CIRCULATED silver dollar to be the hardest to find. I finally found one and paid DOUBLE GUIDEBOOK for it -- an never regretted doing so.

 

Yeah, in 2020 you paid twice the 2000 guidebook

 

This thread sounds like a collector wanting to buy from a dealer. It is different when a collector or inheritor wants to sell to a dealer if the seller doesn't sell on etsy or eBay or Facebook marketplace or other venues. In my area, the coin dealers first pull out the grey sheet. Then they show the seller the bid price in whatever grade the coin may be. The dealer then tells the seller they buy for 10 to 20% behind grey sheet bid which is their profit margin if they had to sell immediately at bid. Some smarter dealers will pull out an old grey sheet which shows the price percentage a dealer pays for a coin based on eye appeal.
Example: From the May 8, 2015 CDN. PCGS 64.23%, 91.25%, Average 81.51%.
There was a CDN Certified Coin Market Indicator for PCGS, NGC, ANACS, ICG, PCI, SEGS, NCI and INS. I'm sure you older guys and dealers remember this.
Most of the dealers in this area sell at CDN Bid to their collector customers. Rare coins have a closer buy due to demand. And 100% of CDN or a percentage higher sale price if the coin is in tremendous demand.
If your dealer prices a coin $250 higher than retail market ( Example: PCGS or NGC price guide) and then says he paid more for it, I would doubt his truthfulness. Study all the books you can and make your offers within reason and if a deal cannot be negotiated, walk away, don't overpay.

 

Just glad i dont sell coins. I bet its a tough gig. Unless you have friends in voin heaven where coinsvare cheap. I rarely feel like i get a coin cheap and I run all over the internet.

Not sure where you would buy coins for resale....but surely not where i buy them.

 

That is why I normally impose a minimum offer threshold and auto-reject the rest; not worth my time.

 

I don't think I've ever even seen an 1857 before, and I've been trolling online listings for a while!

 

I'm always looking for Coins to give for gifts to friends and family (because, by the time I'm gone, everyone I know will have a coin collection, whether they want one or not) So, I got really excited the other day when I came across a seller who had, "more than 10" 1986, proof, Statue of Liberty Commerative halves for sale at $6, with free shipping and "make an offer" so I offered $4.50 each for 10 of them (I know it's a lowball, but what the heck) That price, along with $5.00 & $5.50, were auto rejected, so I offered $5.75. The seller accepted it. When I was done, I saw that he still had more than 10 listed, so I sent him a message, stating that, if he would sell them to me for $5.50, I would buy 10 more from him. I also explained what I had planned for them and that I wasn't planning to resell them. This was his response, "Sorry, I can't do that anymore. I am losing money doing that I paid for those coins $10 each in 1987 expected to go higher and never accomplished that. To ship each coin cost me $3.59 reason why I changed the price to $6.50 plus shipping.
Thank you for your interest."
I responded by thanking him for his message, then sent this one about an hour later, "Hey there. If you change your mind about the price of the coins and want to sell them to me, I'll go $5.75 for 10 of them, and might consider a few more. For that price. Like I said, I'm not a seller, I'll use them for gifts.
Thanks."
Doubt if I ever hear back from him, but figured I'd give it a shot. Maybe he'll get rid of them at a loss after 34 years. If not, at least I'll have 10 at a good price.

 

1971 Brown Box and Blue envelope Ikes are finally above 1971 issue prices due to the run up in silver price.

 

With the online resources that have become available recently, I feel as though we are past the need for middle-men when it comes to collectables. Unfortunately, we do not yet have mechanisms that do not take a cut (Ebay gets it's 12%), but there should be no room for people to make a living by buying collectables low and selling them high.

As a collector, I would not pay somebody 50% the value of their item because I would be ripping them off. In order for dealers to make money they have to do this, but it doesn't change that fact that it's a rip off. Collectables are different from manufactured goods and other commodities. Dealers these days are not being compensated for a service, they are just trying to skim profits between transactions. I put them in the same bucket as day traders, yes they make money, but how do they benefit society?

 

Dealers absolutely provide a service. They're brokers. They connect sellers and buyers of goods. And they deserve to be compensated for their efforts. If you don't see the value in that then go sell on FeeBay or any auction house. You'll quickly see how much their services cost. A dealer is no different. Now how much or little a dealer marks up his/her goods is a different story. You have to know your acceptable price for whatever you're looking to buy. That due diligence is up to you. Nobody is forcing you to pay what a dealer is asking for.

 

“I paid more than that” = “your offer is way off and I highly doubt we are making a deal.”

 

I tend to be a bit overly blunt and harsh when making a point, and in re-reading my post I'm feeling as though I over-stated my case a bit. It was not intended to be insulting.

I guess this is my point, before the advent of online tools, middle men were required to connect buyers and sellers because those avenues were not easily accessible. In that case they did provide a real service.

However, while there are issues with things like Ebay and so forth, it doesn't change the fact that posting an item there exposes the purchase opportunity to the entire world. There is no longer a need to work for those connections, they are available to all for a maximum fee of around 12%. If a dealer can work within that kind of margin then fine, but I'm guessing that would be pretty difficult. (With exception of top tier markets)

With the buying and selling mechanisms in place today, people with for-profit intentions in the collectables space can have other detrimental effects. The value of a collectable is expected to be based on what a collector is willing to pay. However, with required markups, speculation, and expected investment returns, the value of collectables will inevitably become over-inflated. This causes instability, bubbles, and lack of availability of items for those that have a legitimate motivation to collect them.

Stated succinctly, if everyone in the market is an investor then there are no collectors. And, what is the value of a collectable without collectors?

 

Without question there is a huge online market that absolutely operates as you've laid out. Conversely, there's also a huge market of collectors that prefer to physically hold a coin in their hand or don't want to chance nefarious online sellers. Those buyers sometimes prefer to pay a bit of a premium to online markets for the safety and security of in person surety and accountability.

 

The term you are going for is disintermediation.

If you skulk around, you will find a long history of people thinking they don't need intermediaries and discovering the error of their ways.

Travel, the growth of OTAs (online travel agents), and the constant attempts of travel suppliers to directly connect with travel customers (going around the intermediaries).

let say that oh an airline, directly sells you a flight. 20 minutes after they sell you that flight revenue management decides they could have made more money if they had sold you a hotel room and a rental car at the same time.

Guess what airlines don't own hotel rooms and cars to rent

So at the same time they're removing the intermediary selling their flight they want to become the intermediary selling the add on services.

ROTLFMAO

 

i start with numismedia ( i like them because their prices are much lower than pcgs, ngc etc) then i discount from there, if buying in quantity sometimes sell at 30-60% discount off retail..depending on what i have into the coins..but hey, that is just me...lol

 

i remember 4.50 an ounce (and that was with 1.10 over spot premium for enghlehards) lol and also 2.50 each for peace and morgans...but, i am just old...