Just Bought this AT POS Peace Dollar ;)

no offense but when I see this coin it just screams AT
The coloring is not part of the coin especially on the front. the back could be NT it looks extremely natural a sign of a good coin doctor, however the front is uneven you can tell the contrast between the color and silver and you can tell the color is on the surface. Also green on peace dollars occurs with baking in white envelopes. The coin doctors in my area are starting to get good with their work really good, there favorite right now is bufallo nickels (due to demand and upmark, saw one that was blue and purple on a datelss buffalo sell for $39) and peace dollars (theyre easy to practice on), I suspect they will move into morgans and halves soon enough...
Its a beautiful coin from the back though
Just my two cents

 

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How is the luster?

 

Hopefully someday soon, the terms AT and NT will change to "market acceptable/ non market acceptable" because that is what it is all about. If the doctor is even half competent, no one can tell positively one way or the other. Chemistry is chemistry. The dangerous AT is not the baked, liquid drench,matchsticks, MS-70, Oil, etc, of yesteryear. Today's toning is a big business and to be successful, you have to have chemicals and specialized sequencing gas flow devices or injectors. Anyone with a very good knowledge of chemistry, physics, metallurgy, and some inventor ability can/or have designed devices that will consistantly produce AT "album tone" that is indistinguishable from NT. Luckily, most AT is still by amateurs, but it seems to be changing as the profit increases. Just my opinion,

Jim

 

It looks like die cracks in the hair and crown and back of eagle also hair bun looks like lite strike or more likely worn die. some bag marks might be on the slab hard to tell. Tone hides a lot in a picture AU58 to MS60 IMHO

 

Great guesses everyone, and most of you were pretty close. NGC graded it MS-64, and I believe that Tater is spot on when he says its a 63 with a bump for eye appeal. Either way, I'll know better when I see it in hand!

 

Doug, do you possibly remember where/when it was discussed? I don't recall seeing it, so it must have been before my time here.

 

okay, I give up.

What were David Hall's comments?

 

He was quoted on another site.

"Here's a little controversy...do naturally rainbow toned Peace dollars exist...I don't think so. Here's what I said on PCGS CoinFacts...

Note that I am of the very strong opinion that any 1921 Peace dollar...indeed any Peace dollar...that has any rainbow colors (blue, red, green, etc) is absolutely artificially toned. While not very scientific, my approach to toning on coins is to remember the colors I saw in the 1960's and 1970's and if a new look appears, it's artificial to me. This is kind of an "old school" approach and I may be wrong, but unless you believe global warming has created new colors for coins, it just seems illogical to me that new colors would suddenly appear naturally on coins.

So...I never saw a single Rainbow toned Peace dollar in the 1960s or 1970s, but of course I saw thousands of rainbow Morgans. Perhaps the silver was a little different, or handled a little different. You certainly don't see the white spots on Morgans that you see on 1922 and 1923 Peace dollars. Anyway...that's what I think."

 

Thanks Diocletian. Yeah, my comments in the OP were a tongue-in-cheek reference to these comments by David Hall - for which he was rightly lambasted in numerous forums. David Hall has not seen this coin, it is firmly ensconced in an NGC slab.

 

Peace dollars rarely tone like this. Also, the colors on the obverse rim are splotchy and do not show a natural progression from rim inwards. So I agree it's AT.

 

Splotchines is not indicative of AT - many, many NT coins are splotchy or uneven. This coin has much smoother coloration than many, however.

A natural progression is not necessarily from the rim inwards. You are picturing just one manifestation of natural toning - such as from an album. The term "natural progression" can refer to toning in any position or any direction. It refers instead to the appearance of a rainbow, and how the colors are arranged in a "natural" rainbow appearance. This coin does indeed have this rainbow look - a natural progression.

Since ATers often have to individually create each color, their "natural" progression is sometimes ... wrong.

 

I know NGC and PCGS make mistakes, but to the best of my knowledge I dont think they would slab an AT coin.

 

They do it with more frequency than you would think - unknowingly of course. Over the summer, there was a coin doctor exposed who had a very high level of skill, and admitted to having AT'd numerous slabbed examples (mainly Morgan's). His emails showed his strategy for getting them slabbed, including which service to submit which coins and styles of toning to. These coins were so good that many experts had a hard time telling the difference. The point is, if you are going to spend a large sum of money on a toned coin, you really need to know what you are doing. For example, Lehigh has an incredible collection, but there are very few people I know that could, or should, try and follow in his footsteps.

I say this not to scare anyone, but rather to urge caution and studying. Always learn, always study.

 

Shoot Physics Fan. You gave away the answer in the second photo....:smile

 

My advice to toning beginners is to stay away from the huge toning premiums and concentrate on acquiring toned examples that have significant numismatic value regardless of the toning. For example, stay away from common date Morgan's that sell for 5X-10X Wholesale and instead buy attractively toned classic commemoratives for a small premium over price guide. I paid the same amount for these two coins, one at 27X wholesale the other at 1.3X wholesale.




Now the toning is not as dramatic on the Antietam, but the risk is a whole lot less. One sure fire way to get burned collecting toned coins is to have too many coins with huge premiums attached. You need to diversify your collection to protect those big risk coins.

 

David Hall's statement is completely false. It amazes me that someone who is considered a "higher up" in the coin world could say something so amazingly wrong. While Peace Dollars have their own style of toning and that typically doesn't include rainbow colors...that doesn't mean it isn't possible. There are plenty of NT rainbow Peace Dollars, they are just much more scarce than their Morgan counterparts due to the surface characteristics of the coins.

 

Well while we're a-hole deep in this, can any of the "chemists" explain why the morgan and peace dollars normally tone so differently? Is the make-up different? I am assuming 90% silver is 90% silver. But the other make-up. Is it the same or different? Or...?

 

Maybe it was the way the planchets were cleaned or prepared?

When someone like David Hall makes a statement about coins we don't have to buy all of it but we should listen.

I've heard (on other threads) GD's take on AT vs NT and I agree with it. I also like Jim's post 23 on this thread. I think it's no longer AT vs NT but At vs Bad AT.