Auction Houses: The Good, The Bad and the The Ugly + My new Celtic Tet!

Ryro, Interesting thread & I agree with all your endorsements ! Pictured below is my favorite ugly coin .

 

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The good list is

Heritage
Goldberg
NAC / Naville
CNG
Roma
Hess Divo
Kuenker
Nomos
Aureo Calico

These nine auction companies are the only ones to routinely sell denarius types at over $50,000 each. Check AC or CA and you'll see this to be true.

That means collectors and consigors trust this Group of Nine without reservations. No bargains. No debatable authenticity coins. Staffed by real experts

There are a few also rans but tbh some companies listed in this thread are clueless on numismatics and authenticity and may have just got lucky

These same companies also sell very cheap coins, notably the esales run by Naville, Roma and CNG. They use the same experts to evaluate the cheapies that sell under $100 as they do their $10000 coins. And to my certain knowledge the $100 coins get just as much scrutiny for authenticity.

That's why I recommend, if in doubt, or if a newcomer to the hobby, to buy your inexpensive coins from dealers that top end collectors trust for their expensive coins.

Bertolami is not on this list. Not Lanz nor several others whose sales are routinely seeded with fakes.

 

It is indeed strange, but they are. There was a rather enlightening discussion about this in another thread some weeks ago, see here. Zeus, NBS, Ares, Demos and, I assume, Biga appear to be "branches" of the same business operating under different company names and addresses.

 

But see specifically this post within the thread. Themis as Demos are owned by the same person. Zeus and NBS are owned by the same person. I'm not sure, though, that Zeus and Demos are.

 

Thanks...interesting...but my only recent experience has been with Heritage and have found the same with them...slabs only (and limited to PCGS or NGC)...they would hardly even talk to me on any other scenario, etc. Got the feeling I just wasn't enough of a VIP...but maybe I spoke with the wrong person, or...? I did use them successfully many (15-18) years ago...for just a straight commission fee, before all these additional user fees and such...but things seem to have changed.

 

Thanks for the link, @Roman Collector ! I assume this is the part of the post you are refering to:

It is quite possible that I misunderstand, but if I am correct, @acsearch.info only points out that (a) the company Demos is registered in Poland and (b) its owner is not new to the coin business. The fact that this person also owns at least part of Themis, a similarly styled biddr auction house registered in the UK, doesn't mean that he is not also the owner of more such ventures registered in the Netherlands.

If I recall correctly, the first post that you linked originally also included a sentence about the legality of running different companies in different EU countries. This was later edited away for unknown reasons. I read this to imply that the owner of the Dutch companies and the owner of Demos are the same person. (Themis was mentioned only much later in the thread and also isn't located in a EU country.)

Furthermore, the websites, coin photography, auction listings and even logo design of the companies mentioned above as well as Themis are strikingly similar.

I of course understand if you'd rather not go into detail, but since I greatly respect your numismatic expertise and am aware of the fact that you have much more insight into the auction market than most of us, I'd be truly interested to hear which of the smaller and less expensive auction houses you'd put into the category "also ran."

 

By smaller sellers I mean companies such as Baldwin's (which no longer does any auctions so not on the list), Harlan J.Berk (ditto) and Ed Waddell at http://coin.com (retail only). Also all the retail sellers on The NumisPlace are excellent. For the bigger firms I only give 100% assurance for the nine I mention, and several of them sell very cheap coins via their e-sales.

A reliable guide is that if a company did not exist before the internet era, c.2000, selling coins from bricks and mortar coins, then it's possible they do not have a history of employing real expert numismatists. They do not know what they do not know. This is the point. They may think they have the expertise without knowing that they do not (this doesn't apply to those who knowingly sell fakes or knowingly have deceptive business practices!). Nomos is an exception being run by the venerable expert Alan Walker and Roma has now a vast team of expertise, but the rest I list are all pre-internet.

If you have a lot of expertise, by all means buy widely from shadier sources. But they won't be cheaper than the best dealers in the end - their provenances are worth less which will matter when reselling, and there's higher chances of doubtful coins.

I do think this CT list gets over obsessed about minor customer service issues especially those that result from you/us being very small customers to the very biggest dealers, such as the way NAC takes a long time to invoice due to them being a small staffed company. Or postage issues. Or invoicing queries. Or response times. These issues do not matter. The coins will get to you in the end. Relax.

Sellers who sell fakes sometimes provide great customer service. Hmmm

 

They are not really an auction, but I have had good service of Harlan Berk. I know some pay say their prices are high, but the items are as described, and their "in hand" turning the coin over a good light, as opposed to flat photographs, has proven invaluable to me.

They also have good delivery services and are prompt, which more than I can say for the auction houses that charge very high prices for shipping. At times Harlan Berk has sent the coin to me with no shipping charges when there was a supply issue. e.g. The coin shown on their web site was in fact sold, and I picked another piece.

Charging me an arm and a leg for shipping and then not shipping the item for more than a week after they have received my check, which has cleared, really gets under my skin.

I have also been pleased with Davidson's. I have had similar experiences. They have shipped out coins before, I knew, they had received my check.

 

I fully support this. I have only words of praise for Harlan Berk. Always responsive and reacted promptly even when I returned a coin due to authenticity concerns. The best coin dealer I ever bought from.

 

What about Savoca, from Munich? They may not have high high end stuff like the ones you mentioned but IMO are very good, especially for beginners with a lower budget. They have three sets of auctions blue, silver, and gold I believe; cheapest, cheap, expensive, respectively. I've bought from them twice and have been very pleased.

 

Personally, I have high opinions of Savoca. I've purchased from them multiple times and I've always been happy. I practically lived off their blue auctions when I first started, and I still love poring through them because occasionally there are rarities.

One thing to note is they're a bit of "wild west" in that they rarely attribute their coins except to emperor, and I've seen mistakes. I've also seen some of the nicer coins they have get bid up way higher than they would in a higher end auction. In fact, I did this very thing in my first auction with them. My recommendation therefore is to stay under 50 Euros in their blue auctions unless you know the coin well.

Another point, I recently found a misattributed coin on Nomos. The coin itself was genuine and rare, but they attributed it to a ruler whose coins are near impossible to find, when in fact it was minted by someone whose coins are common. It's not the first time I've seen someone misattribute this coin, so I believe this was a mistake and not ill will, but it does illustrate that regardless of the auction house, you need to know your coin. FWIW, I've bought from Nomos and have been very happy.

 

I think GC stands for "Great Collections". My experience with them is that they carry a lot of proof coins of a particular type I'm seeking. I've bid in a number of their auctions for these but have always been outbid.

Right now I'm being very conservative pricewise about expensive US material as I think that market will correct. Thus I don't expect to win anything from GC soon. For some types of US proof coins, they receive higher bids than Heritage.

 

Good points! In Savoca's last silver auction I saw the coveted Justinian II first reign solidus mislabeled as "Justin II" with an estimate @ 300 euros or so. Many others saw it too and the coin went for what it appropriately should have (2000+ euros).