Is this 1908 Chinese Silver Dragon real or fake?

I think the rust stains give it away. If it seems too good to be true...

 

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I need some help to figure out one of these coins myself. I have taken it to multiple dealers who agree it is a Troy ounce of .999 silver with 24k gold leaf overlay, but from there their opinions differ too widely. One says he thinks it is a 1958 anniversary edition of the original 1908 coin. Another said he thinks it may be an original 1908 minting that had the gold leaf overlay added later in honor of the anniversary. I have removed the coin from the 1950s Sterling silver and resin necklace mounted coin keeper and am currently trying to find some way of removing the resin without harming the coin in any way so I'd appreciate any helpful advice anyone might have on how that could be accomplished also. I would appreciate any help here. Thanks in advance.

 

I need some help to figure out one of these coins myself. I have taken it to multiple dealers who agree it is a Troy ounce of .999 silver with 24k gold leaf overlay, but from there their opinions differ too widely. One says he thinks it is a 1958 anniversary edition of the original 1908 coin. Another said he thinks it may be an original 1908 minting that had the gold leaf overlay added later in honor of the anniversary. I have removed the coin from the 1950s Sterling silver and resin necklace mounted coin keeper and am currently trying to find some way of removing the resin without harming the coin in any way so I'd appreciate any helpful advice anyone might have on how that could be accomplished also. I would appreciate any help here. Thanks in advance.

 

You can find some videos on youtube about counterfeiting in the Far East such as this one ( picked randomly from a list of such on google). Jim

 

Thank you. I was unsure anyone would see what I put up because it never showed up visible to me. For some reason it shows twice now, so sorry about that.

 

So unfortunately after watching the video from the link in your response, I'm really feeling no closer to understanding if this is just a replica or is even likely to be real but with added gold leaf. Is it a good idea, in your opinion to send it out to PCGS for authentication, or do you think that's a waste of time and money?

 

If it's .999 silver I don't think it could be a real coin from 1908. I think the Chinese silver from that era was 0.820. If you weigh the coin and it lines up closely, that increases the chance it's real by a lot. Gold leaf would add very little weight. There are so many fakes of Chinese silver that it's usually safer to assume a coin of unknown provenance is fake than that it it not. Most fakes are base metal, though silver fakes for the more valuable types exist as well.

 

The original weight of the coin is meant to be 26.7g (if i recall correctly)

If this weighs exactly 1 ounce, regardless of the lacquer on it, I find it unlikely to be genuine.

I wouldn't bother removing the lacquer - it would cause more unnecessary damage. Sell it as an art piece.

Just as a safe measure - can you please post a photo of the edge?

 

I have never weighed the coin myself, but I was told by the dealer that with the resin and the coin holder on it, which the coin holder is Sterling silver, so it was a good bit over the 1 ounce mark, but he weighed an almost identical coin holder and subtracted that weight from the one I have and if the weight of the holder were subtracted from the overall weight of mine inside its holder, it would be very precisely correct weight. I hope that helps, and I'll submit photos of the edging on this post.

 

I posted some pics of the edging, and I am very aware of the fakes out there. I know that it is real silver for sure as this has been verified by 3 different dealers, the purity is in question as the dealer that said .999 was saying he believes that was the most common measure of purity for anniversary replica coins of the 1950s era, but I don't believe the actual purity has ever been ascertained. I wish I could provide more information but I cannot at this time.

 

I posted the coin edge photos, but if there is something more you need to know, let me know and I'll try to get to it as soon as I can. Thank you.

 

I am somewhat mixed in my opinion.

The weight in my opinion cannot be used reliably as I cannot see a way of how much resin is on the coin.

The photo edges are also not ideal either. There is one however that shows promising signs that it may be genuine. Please don't ask me to describe why - counterfeiters always use tips from various sources to learn how to improve their wares.

That said, because it's now a jewellery coin, it is not realistic to ask for a full price of what this could be. Market price is very hard to judge. I personally wouldn't offer more than 200 (need to inspect in person to determine authenticity) which will make it hard to justify grading cost. But again, all you need is a couple of buyers to drive price up.

 

This is a fake, with the rust. Be careful with those fakes.

 

Also, beware of overly "thick characters" and "fake" wear (that black guck that makes it look old but in reality it obviously isn't).
Rule of thumb: never buy Chinese coins on Amazon. First, 90% are from those ripoff PRC mass production factories in Shenzhen/Guangdong. Second, if some are even real, they're way too expensive.

 

I'm not sure what you're seeing as "rust", but the silver is slightly tarnished on the edges since the sterling silver coin holder also tarnished and it wasn't perfectly watertight on the very edges. There is also some tarnishing that happened on the immediate edges of the front and back of the coin that happened because of the problem of two silver objects tarnishing together. There is no rust on the coin or on the coin holder however. I hope this helps to clarify.

 

The black stuff on the edges of the coin are exactly like what comes off of my sterling silver necklaces when I clean them. It looks identical to the stuff off of the necklaces when gently rubbed with a microfiber cloth, and smells exactly the same too. I can smell the same as I gently rub it off of my necklaces, earrings, rings, etc. which are of sterling silver though, so I have to admit if they're faking tarnish, they did a really excellent job of faking it. This coin was bought in 1959, so it had to have been setup as a convincing fake before then, because when it was purchased it wasn't in any coin holders, or cases, or anything like that, but instead was bought from a coin dealer who was known in his area (somewhere in Illinois) to be incredibly reputable with pretty much all coinage he handled. Maybe this helps clarify just a tiny bit more?

 

Sorry for the ambiguity, as I was replying to the first coin on page 1. Not the pendant ex. Mounted coin.

 

This is why it's best to create your own thread to avoid ambiguity.

Regardless of what it is, the best case is that it's a jewellery coin. While the demand is high for Chinese coin, it's not an extremely rare coin.

 

Sorry. Meant in general. Wasn't specifically mentioning your coin

 

My apologies. This is nevertheless the common 1908 Peiyang Dollar. I did see this on eBay. It is the common long spine/tail variety with cloud connected.