Detecting counterfeit 1914-D Lincolns

I've a 1914-D Lincoln just arrived. Probably grades G, though sold as VG. I wouldn't think it likely to be counterfeit in this grade/price range, but I thought I would look it up in the PCGS Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection book anyway.

My 1914-D has no sign of VDB on the shoulder, and the mint mark shape is similar to the illustration in the PCGS book. Nothing seems alarming about the way the mint mark is attached to the field of the coin (looking through a 20x stereo microscope).

But the PCGS book shows a picture of a genuine 1914-D with a die break connecting the rim to the bust, roughly below "1" in the date. I can't see this die break on my coin.

Does anyone know if this die-break must be present for the coin to be genuine (or just is present on some but not all genuine coins)?

Thanks.

 

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onlysdad,
No die break on mine either and I'm sure it's genuine.Maybe someone else can explain the NCGS pic...Doug?

 

Die breaks typically occur over the life of a die and are unique to a specific die. I haven't heard of one being there at the beginning of a die's life, but I suppose its possible. As die's wear out, the are replaced and minting goes on. So some coins in a given year may have die cracks, others will not. That being said, I'd guess you've just noticed something PCGS failed to notice when selecting a specimen as an example.

 

"My 1914-D has no sign of VDB on the shoulder,"

I'd like to note that the VDB wasn't "restored" until 1918 and I think it's pretty worn off and hard to see on pennies of the era in the G/VG range since they made it so small.

 

NOS
What he was saying is that when there is a VDB on the shoulder...(that is where anyone should look first) its a fake...since he didn't see any that was a point in the right way...but I had a fake 1914-P cent and they had taken off the VDB.

Onlysdad
I would suggest that you get it slabbed as soon as you can...and it might be a good idea to only buy that coin slabbed from now on...its best if you buy the keys slabbed.

Speedy

 

NOS and Speedy,
I had no idea about the vdb not returning until 1918.You learn something new every day.
I took a closeup of my 1918d (first attempt with a magnifying glass) which is about VG and here is the result,still very hard to see but it's there...trickiest pic I've ever taken

 

"NOS
What he was saying is that when there is a VDB on the shoulder...(that is where anyone should look first) its a fake...since he didn't see any that was a point in the right way...but I had a fake 1914-P cent and they had taken off the VDB."


I guess it is all a matter of interpretation then huh. BTW: Buying them slabbed is great for key dates but what if you are trying to assemble an album? Sure you could break it out but look at the extra money you paid for the slab...

 

Mikjo0,

Look very closely between the bust and the rim, due "south" of the "1" in the date. It's hard to tell from a picture, but I think I might see a small connection between the bust and the rim there.

 

Onlysdad
I would suggest that you get it slabbed as soon as you can...and it might be a good idea to only buy that coin slabbed from now on...its best if you buy the keys slabbed.

Speedy[/QUOTE]

Speedy,

Sound advice that I had considered beforehand. But I'm with NOS -- if it's destined for an album, it's hard to justify getting it slabbed, especially if it cost $134 raw. If I ever get the 1909-s VDB, I do intend to get that one slabbed and live with a hole in the album, and the warm fuzzy knowledge that there's a 1909-s VDB in the safe.

Onlysdad

 

onlysdad,
I just looked at the spot in question and you are right! I'll try to get a closeup but the break (raised bump) extends all the way from the bottom of Abe's shirt,where a modern necktie might end and up the rim of the edge,almost to the top..hmmm

OK...here it is..you can see it running up the curve of the rim.

 

The justification is mainly authentication. You will know its the real deal, and so will any future buyer (whether you or future generations sell it).

 

OK, so I'm back to my original question -- are there genuine 1914-d's that do not have a die break? Lawdogct pointed out that a die break does not necessarily have to exist on every authentic 1914-d, but it could exist on every one if the die break was there from the first to the last coin minted, and if there was only one die used (is that plausible?).

Does anyone out there have a genuine 1914-d that does not have the die break?

 

Most of my keys are slabbed but some are raw...they will be slabbed soon because I want my keys slabbed...for a few reasons..
1--if I ever need to sell I will get better prices and they will sell faster.
2--I know for a fact and can prove that they are real...
3--a hole might be there...but wouldn't it be better to have a real coin than a "maybe its real...and maybe its not" coin in the hole??

I still suggest that you buy your keys raw and that you get this 14-D slabbed...it will sell faster and better if the time ever comes.

Speedy

 

onlysdad,

I can't and won't quote on whether the coin is authentic or not! I will refer back to what lawdogct said about Die Breaks! Die Breaks normally occur in the life of a Die, therefore it is reasonable to consider that rare coins will be found without evidence of a Die Break and others that will show evidence of a Die Break. In order to meet production, the Mints will typically use a Die until it is beyond use and in some cases, this is when the Die totally falls apart. I have yet to see a 1955-P "Doubled Die" Lincoln Cent with a Die Break but it is reasonable to consider that they exist!


Frank

 

The people at the grading companies are human like us so as long as you know what to look for there isn't any reason that you couldn't authenticate them yourselves with a good magnifier and the like.

 

NOS
True...but try to sell it sight-un-seen or with only a few photos...it won't go for as much as a slabbed one...I'm sure my coins are real and I have no problem with them being raw...but I also want to make them so if I need to...I can get the most for my money...think about it a bit and I think you will agree with me.

Speedy

 

If you frequent in key date coins then I recommend you go out and learn as much as possible and get a forgery book. Trick with the '14D is to check the spacing in the date to see that it is not a 1944D for example. You may get more for the coin Speedy but how about the price you had to pay to get it slabbed? I think in the end it evens out...

 

As I'm the first to admit, I'm in no way an expert on U.S. coins, but I find it inconceivable that 1,193,000 coins were struck from a single die!

 

NOS
I almost agree...but it depens on who you send it too...if you send it to NGC then yes...I agree...but if you send it to ANACS for the $10 service...I don't agree...

Speedy