This 1830 half dime (LM-8, R-1) in a PCGS MS-64+ holder was offered for auction ending last night. It had a minimum opening of $1400 and an estimated retail value of $1700. The auction ended with no bids and was put on the dealer's website for direct sale at $1700. This coin's pluses were a hammered strike and nice toning. The negatives were a high starting bid and that gouge between the bust and the date. I decided not to bid on this coin because my eye was constantly drawn to the gouge. I don't understand why this coin got straight-graded. Or am I being too tough? I suspect that other potential bidders viewed the coin as over-priced and/or not deserving of the straight grade. What do you think?
I'm kinda surprised nobody bit at $1400. That seems like a good price. Was this an auction with in-hand viewing? I too would have been concerned about the gouge above the date. It's also really hard to read the luster from these pictures. They make the coin look dark and muted. The color looks nice - but these pictures were taken under a strong light. I'll bet that, in hand, this is a fairly dark coin.
Minimum starting bid was $1425. Greysheet has MS-64 at $1100 and MS-65 at $2000. This coin could be had at $1425 since there were no bidders which would have been a good price except for the "gouge". On-line auction, no in-hand viewing. Yes, patina is darkish and photos are meant to diminish it. Not terminal and hopefully arrested at this point by being slabbed.
I don’t really mind that heart-shaped gouge, but you do and that’s why you shouldn’t buy it. Straight grade yes, but MS64+ is a stretch. It’s a very nice coin, but in my opinion, it’s not $1500 nice.
Last 64+ sold for $1620 on Heritage in 2019... and everyone says the market has been heating up. I don't think the price guides have caught up yet.
That gouge would turn me off right away. My eyes would be drawn to it every time I saw it. Furthermore the gouge makes it an over graded coin in my opinion. It should either be a "no grade" or something like MS-61 or 62. In addition to the heart shaped mark, what about the one above the "8" in the date? Is that into the coin? As for "hammered," how about this one? It is graded MS-64, and it does have some issues, but this is about as sharp as this type gets.
The gouge would kill it for me. I agree with johnmilton's MS 61 or 62. Even without the gouge MS 63 max.
My original question was whether the gouge should have gotten this coin a details grade. We have some divergence of opinion and some ambiguity among the respondents which tells me that the coin is borderline in that regard. OK, pretty much what I had decided before I made the post. As to what straight grade it should be, a number of you opined that it should be MS-61 or 62 because of the gouge which implies that you think the coin's grade should be 64 without the gouge and should be net graded down from that 64 as the baseline. I have a different take on that: There are only two, maybe three, defects on this coin. The first is the obverse gouge already discussed and it is not a minor defect. The second is a very minor rim hit at K12 on the reverse. The third is darkish toning. I would posit that absent the gouge, this coin would be a candidate for a solid 65 and maybe a 66 and that the MS-64+ grade is actually a diminution due to the gouge. High grades in this issue are not really rare. PCGS lists 86 coins in 65 and up including plus grades. My conclusion being that PCGS, rather than give the coin a details grade, net graded the coin down to 64+ due to the gouge. None of this speculation on my part changes my feelings about the coin - a lovely piece with a fatal flaw. I am really just trying to put myself into the heads of the TPG graders to better understand what they are thinking and to test my own thinking against the more experienced and smarter collectors here on CT. Oh, one other thing: This coin has a PCGS slab label that attributes the provenance to D.L. Hansen. Make of that what you will.
I don't see how the coin ever made it into a 64 holder. PCGS should buy it back and get the thing off the market.
not trying to hijack the thread but I have a 33 that has cracks that appear to exsist on both sides...I thought I read that the half dimes were prone to crack and break due to the metal being weak...anybody else hear that?
Half dimes are not prone to cracking and breaking. The metal they were made of, 90% silver and 10% copper, is the same as all the other US silver coinage of the time. Now, half dimes are small and thin and more prone to damage than their more robust cousins but that has nothing to do with the alloy from which they were made. It is possible that your coin has been damaged by external forces. But it is also possible that what you are seeing on the coin is die cracks which are raised lines on the coins caused by the dies cracking. Post photos in a different thread and we can have a more in-depth conversation.
I have heard of very old English hammered coins falling apart because they contained who knows what in addition to silver. The rare pennies of the empress Matilda (circa 1140) seem to be famous for that. Dealers tell me they have handled coins that were held together with glue. I have never heard of this problem with U.S. coins.
I am a recent student of the TPG Mission Statements. They want to be a reliable channel for sight unseen trading based on their analysis. Because some defects reduce value, but not significantly, they state they will (straight) Grade a coin at reduced level to what they feel is a proper Market value. As someone who dislikes mixing technical and Market grading, I'm glad I rarely deal in high grade coins whose value is so heavily dependent on the plastic label. With this in mind, I suspect the added value of spectacular toning may have offset the damage to arrive at the perceived market value Grade. Zero bids indicated the grader was wrong.
