What are the prices in the 2010 Whitman Red Book based on? Which price for gold and silver? Is the "Grey Sheet" a list of general wholesale prices? If so, can I download just one issue? m.
Midas, The greysheet is basically supposed to represent the bid and ask price between dealers. I have found it to be the best true representation of the value of a coin. Or the so called pulse of the market. http://www.greysheet.com/ You can go to the website and order or download single issues or a variety of other options, ( the single issue is well worth the price if you are attending a show or just want to catch up on some values). If you have never seen the greysheet, I would highly recommend the $13 package to see just what they fully cover. The customer service is great, I have emailed them a question or two and they have replied prompty. As for the redbook prices ?? The redbook is a good basic tool for mintages, composition and general comparisons between dates and the history of coinage. And remember Knowledge is Power. Hope this helps, Lack
What about the price guides on Heritage auctions web site: http://coins.ha.com/ref/price-guide.zx I click on the type of coin under "Price Guide for Numismantics", then use the Wholesale price for PCGS coins, and get a pretty good estimate of where grades coins trade. Seems like raw coins trade about 20-30% lower.
Thanks Lackluster. I need something that offers a realistic wholesale/retail price. Sometimes I do pretty good at local auctions and estate sales. With an accurate price guide it'll be more fun.
Greysheet = wholesale prices (or as close as you'll get to them) Coin Values = high retail prices Auction Results = best retail prices (Teletrade, Heritage)
Redbook prices are set by dealers (think inflated retail pricing, the price you would pay a dealer for the coin) Greysheet is generally considered a wholesale guide for buying coins by coin dealers. Said more bluntly, as a collector you can expect to pay Redbook prices and sell at greysheet prices when using a retail dealer.
The prices in the Red Book are carefully gone over many times by people that work at Whitman Publishing while sitting at a neighborhood bar. The prices are the last item they enter and only after a minimum of 2 Martini's. Preferable the Vodka variety. If this isn't true, then I suspect that the individuals that do enter thoes prices are attempting to predict the prices in about 5 to 10 years from the time the book is printed. The Blue Book by Whitman is done similarly but at that Bar you must have a minimum of 3 glasses of Wine first. The grey sheet is what the dealers like to use since so many collectors have no idea of what it is all about. Great for saying things like your getting a real bargain here since the Grey sheet says xxxx. Of course there is that PCGS price list if you want to think your really rich, use that one. I think the only real price list is what is sold on ebay.
I agree. Someone should publish an Ebay PriceSheet, since I'd be willing to bet more coins are purchased there (and comparable online auctions) than at shows and coin shops. If not, most collectors will know what the coin they are after is selling for on Ebay, and thus the value is essentially price-controlled based on the recent sale prices there. I never buy a coin anywhere (for the most part) without checking recent sales on Ebay to make sure I can't just buy virtually the same coin for cheaper within seconds. I feel bad for the neighborhood coin shop owner, but its just part of the hobby these days.
You would be wise to ignore the realized prices on ebay because there are far too many people buying coins on ebay that haven't got a clue about what they are doing or about the coin market. And because of that they pay too much. So anyone who uses those prices from ebay as a guide, is probably paying too much as well.
Really? I could not disagree more? Sure, there are some idiots on Ebay overpaying for junk, but by in large the purchase prices on Ebay are drastically less than what I'd expect to pay in a coin shop/show. I've seen this on lower priced coins ($1-$10) and even on key date coins like Lincolns and Buffalos. Do you disagree?
I like the Redbook a lot, and I think the prices are thoroughly researched, but wouldn't consider ever buying or selling off the redbook, because the market is so fluid, and those prices are point-in-time. In additon, there can be a bid difference between bid/ask, depending on who's doing the selling/buying (dealers, auctions, ebay, private sale), and the redbook doesn't capture. A great resource, but not for current values. eBay can be tricky - for more common collectibles, eBay prices, in my very amateurish opinion, seem to be over-priced because of who is buying there and why. The further you move from 'popular' coinage, the pricing seems to resemble the grey-sheet and larger dealers - more like comodity pricing: some exceptions to be sure, but more fluid, gravitating toward center, or real-market. When you move into very high-value coins, the prices seem to resemble other auctions, which can swing wildly based on the few, but highly individualistic, people bidding. So I 'manage' my collection based off the red-book - a handy memory-refresher for everything I can't hold in my brain. For 'collectible' items, I save up $ and my list, then present it to a dealer to buy - you get great pricing and a great relationship that way. For mid-level (e.g. afordable key-dates), I go to eBay, and wait for a good opportunity (lower than what a sane dealer should sell it for). If I dont find that opportunity, I reach out to my dealer. I'm not in to the ultra-high level of collecting, but would imagine if I were fortunate enough there, I'd work through my preferred dealer and an auction house to aquire pieces. These are just my observations based off limited data - I'm watching to see what others post to help understand how that pairs with others' reality. :smile
Yes, emphatically. Far more often than not you can buy a coin cheaper elsewhere than you can on ebay. Can you do it every single time ? No of course not. If what you think was true then most people in the coin business would use ebay as their source for pricing. But they do not. And they do not because they know the majority of people over-pay on ebay. Coin dealers, almost without exception, buy their coins elsewhere because they are cheaper. Knowledgeable collectors do the same. Then sell them on ebay for that very reason.
Hmm.. very interesting. THanks for the insight. I never would have thunk it. I buy and sell mostly on Ebay, but occasionally find a good deal at a show or shop. Particularly when I can group a few coins together into a single sale. happy huntin!
This could be true of the majority, but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I would agree 100% on the BIN listings, but auctions can still be true auctions. I just bought a Hepthalite/Turkish imitation Sassnid coin on Ebay for about a quarter of a price any dealer would sell the coin for. In fact, the same coin is on Vcoins right now for 6 times the price I paid. So yes, Ebay can be a poor price guide to go by, but it still can be a great place to score a good deal. Concerning the Redbook, its fine as a baseline as long as you understand these prices are for completely problem free coins, and are overstated for low value coins.
Is it possible to use a fixed percentage (like 80%) of the Redbook's prices as a buying guidance? Or does the relative premium vary?
It varies sir. Generically you can say the lower the price in Redbook the higher the percentage premium. If its a $1 coin in Redbook you can probably buy it for $.50 or less. I wish it were easier, but it gets into differences in geography, where you buy the coin, and other things at that point. There is no substitute for knowledge in this hobby, and this is an extension of that. Btw, this rule of cheap coins being overpriced and some expensive ones being underpriced is true for all price guides. I won't get into WHY, but I have posted about the WHY before.
That's generally true. However, I've seen quite a few sellers get screwed (me included) by low bidding. This is exactly why ebay is not a solid place to establish prices and why publishers like CDN exist. I was at a coin show this weekend and EVERY dealer there uses and respects CDN prices. I didn't see a single one open up ebay and check completed listings before they sold to me. LOL
You also have to consider when bidiots are not on Ebay or people are all asleep or something and someone gets a really good deal. Also, sometimes the seller lists something wrong or provides a really bad picture and someone detects that. These low prices get averaged into people overpaying causing drastic price swings.
