I received an auction coin in an NGC MS65 slab the other day. Here's a link of the image: http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=2781&lot=1302 I stopped in at a local coin shop, the owner, was surprized that the coin had made it into a "65" holder, he said "it has a hole in its head". Maybe my visual attention is not very acute, but it seems that the auction companies are trying to produce the most attractive images of coins for sale, using lighting and other technology to make buyers bid. When I tried to pull a bid recently in a Heritage Auction, the auction specialist underlined that he would take the action just once "as a courtesy", but warned that he could not do so in the future. I would opine that the auction companies do in house profiling of customers, like many businesses these days, and use the profiling to create a more profitable business practice.
Well - I agree in once sense, that is that it looks like a struck thru coin on that spot on the head. To me it is clearly visible in the pictures - but I was looking for it. So I see nothing to complain about on the auction. Also I do not think tpg's drop grades based on that - someone can correct me if I am wrong. So I do my best to look at the coin in an auction 3 or 4 times before I bid on it - I mean I might look at it three or 4 days in a row just to make sure I see it correctly. And yes I have missed some things on a few coins when just viewing pictures. And yes auction houses do need their pictures to be as close as possible to the coin. This will increase the bidding on the coin. Heritage takes the best pictures in my opinion and DLRC the worst. The best possible pictures will earn them more money, but I do not think any of them intentionally juice the photo's. And in none of this am I referring to in ebay sellers. So better pictures, more money for the auction house.
Thanks. I don't have DjVu. I was looking for a 1932 philly for a while in "65". And you're quite right about not doing any rash bidding. The coin shop owner, who I've done a fair amount of business with, was critical of the coin, so it got returned.
Now you also have a dissatisfaction return policy in these auctions. You don't have to cover a dispute with saying you didn't notice the "damage" , just that it is more obtrusive an unappealing than what the online photos suggested. Don't even need to attempt to dispute the grade. Why had you not returned the coin ?
OK, I need some education here. First of all, the sale closed for $175 for a coin easily retailing for $300 to $400, depending on availability and your estimate of its eye-appeal. So, you got a bargain. The whole online auction thing is a discussion we do not need to have. I never buy from online auctions. You do. I do buy mail order and have bought on the basis of online images, but my interests are such that mere adjectives are close enough. MS-65 never applies. But if you need VuMaster software or whatever to do this, then you need to get that or else not participate. Then there is the fact that you returned the coin, which was your privilege, perhaps, and also pulled a bid. Buyer's remorse strikes us all. I do not know what the rules are here with this because I don't do that, but in a live auction, of course, you have no return privileges. So, it seems that you have a nice safety net. The coin shop owner has an interest in your buying coins from him. Like everyone else with 145 years of experience, the shop owner is just a guy unless he has a slew of ANA certifications or something else like work experience for a top tier grader. Most local shop owners do not see in a year the coins that graders see in a week. Guaranteed. And as I understand it, the reliable TPGs have a three step process. It is not just one person's opinion. Though, admittedly, opinion it is. Always. Which is why we say to buy the coin, not the holder. You grade the coin before you buy it. Always. My interests are mostly in ancients and world and the broader questions about the forms and uses of money. As a numismatist, I think of it as philosophy more than collecting. My last two acquisitions were books. I typically buy material (coins, etc.) at shows and conventions from people I know on sight who know me on sight. So, there is a lot that I do not know about online auctions of mainstream US Federal Type Coins.
It's not a hole, it's a contact mark in the hair. And many would miss it if they didn't know it was there. And in all honesty, that mark would not stop a coin from getting a 65.
Agreed. But put the same mark in front of Washington's face or on his cheek and no -65 for that coin. Contact marks in the "busy" areas don't impact the grade as much as in open areas.
The shop owner saw the apparent overstrike as damage. He looked at it with his jeweler's glass and saw some other stuff. I don't want to be hiding behind some one else's judgment, or critical analysis. What you like and don't like is subjective. Unless there is a firm contract against it as with Heritage, you don't have to keep a coin you don't like. If this coin is worth more than it should sell no problem at that level. I don't think you hurt an auctioneer's or coin dealer's feelings by exercising return privaleges. They are out to make money, sometimes they try to salt the fields of their competitors--which may impact their credibility in the long run. Some collectors need a psychologist or ethicist more than a numismatist to help them work through their complexes.
Ok, so I guess my question is, did you return the coin because you didn't like it, or because the shop owner didn't like it? I wouldn't recommend collecting what your local shop owner decides is nice or not...collect what you decide is nice. aside from that, I think it's a nice coin. Guy~
I guess I saw it as an early holdered coin, therefore conservatively graded when I bid on it. I figured it was worth the bid plus juice. The local coin dealer told me he thought the coin might have been "switched", i.e. inserted into a bona fide holder illegally. He saw it as a problem coin, listing a number of problems, but in retrospect his analysis was probably biased since he didn't recognize the overstrike on Washington's head as such. Some coin dealers are experts in some areas but have blind spots in others. It's a hard, hard job, to sit behind display cases, deal with all questions all day about whether a given wheat cent or Sacagawea is worth more than face value, haggling over deals and trying to eke out a living, worry about security and so forth. I take my hat off for such brave souls who have the courage to run their shops on a daily basis.
I don't have the plug in but it looks like there's a hit on the Eagle's right leg and upper right wing. That coin is very close to 65, if not 65, for me...what do you hguys grade it?
What happened to you when you tried to pull a bid in a Heritage Auction is standard procedure. The only bids you can freely pull are those that you place on Heritage Live before an item comes up for live bidding. As for in-house profiling -- you are absolutely right, and it's to both our advantage and yours.
As already well noted this is a coin worth a lot more than the final price. Should not be a complaint about the price at all. If you really need a super magnification device for all your coins, you'll really have a difficult time ever finding any coins.
go with the look if you like the coin then buy it, I prefer coins with some character and tone and that coin has it, plus it is in a 65 holder and you are getting a great deal on it, dealers sometimes are looking in a closeminded idea of what the pefect coin should be and it really belongs to the eye of the holder!
Thanks for all the posts! In retrospect, I would have done things differently had I known that the "counterstrike" mark was just that.
