GTG! Guess the Grade! Hercule 5 Francs 1876A Paris

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by MIGuy, May 27, 2021.

  1. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    What's funny about this one is it's not graded by one of our big four TPGs. So... have at it folks! I love the big Hercules silver French Francs. The reveal should be amusing - I'm hoping for at least half a dozen guesses ;) IMG_4135 edit.JPG IMG_4134.JPG IMG_4137edit.JPG
     
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  3. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Sorry, the coin image is not sharp enough.
     
  4. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    Ugh, here's three more, and I really can't take a coin picture to save my life. This irritates me endlessly. IMG_4140 (2).JPG IMG_4139 (2).JPG IMG_4138 (2).JPG
     
  5. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    There is no focus on my iPhone - this is not a Minolta X700!!!!!
     
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  6. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Just for the heck of it, try with a fluorescent light. It should take the glare off the coin.
     
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  7. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    That's okay . I got it at MS-65 anyways .
     
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  8. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    MS68 but it might be details have a feeling its way overgraded.
     
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  9. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    Thank you, is this better? I think it's more revealing in some regards. Good note. I do intend to try and follow some of the advice in here and get a photo setup at some point, I am tired of my bad photos too. IMG_4146 (2).JPG IMG_4145 (2).JPG
     
  10. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    looks like mid AU details ...PCCB is a self sealing slab that anyone can buy and put in their own coins....I'm guessing the self-slabber gave it MS 70
     
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  11. SensibleSal66

    SensibleSal66 U.S Casual Collector / Error Collector

    Just a question . What does this coin depict ?
     
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  12. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    SensibleSal, it's Hercules!!!!! I only need a few more guesses before I show off the "graded" slab, lol.

    More info:
    The symbol of Hercules was first adopted by the Old Regime to represent the monarchy.[24] Hercules was an ancient Greek hero who symbolized strength and power. The symbol was used to represent the sovereign authority of the King over France during the reign of the Bourbon monarchs.[25] However, the monarchy was not the only ruling power in French history to use the symbol of Hercules to declare its power.

    During the Revolution, the symbol of Hercules was revived to represent nascent revolutionary ideals. The first use of Hercules as a revolutionary symbol was during a festival celebrating the National Assembly's victory over federalism on 10 August 1793.[26] "Federalism" was a movement to weaken the central government.[27] This Festival of Unity consisted of four stations around Paris which featured symbols representing major events of the Revolution which embodied revolutionary ideals of liberty, unity, and power.[28]

    The statue of Hercules, placed at the station commemorating the fall of Louis XVI, symbolized the power of the French people over their former oppressors. The statue's foot was placed on the throat of the Hydra, which represented the tyranny of federalism which the new Republic had vanquished. In one hand, the statue grasped a club, a symbol of power, while in the other grasping the fasces which symbolized the unity of the French people. The image of Hercules assisted the new Republic in establishing its new Republican moral system. Hercules thus evolved from a symbol of the sovereignty of the monarch into a symbol of the new sovereign authority in France: the French people.[29]

    This transition was made easily for two reasons. First, because Hercules was a famous mythological figure, and had previously been used by the monarchy, he was easily recognized by educated French observers. It was not necessary for the revolutionary government to educate the French people on the background of the symbol. Additionally, Hercules recalled the classical age of the Greeks and the Romans, a period which the revolutionaries identified with republican and democratic ideals. These connotations made Hercules an easy choice to represent the powerful new sovereign people of France.[25]

    During the more radical phase of the Revolution from 1793 to 1794, the usage and depiction of Hercules changed. These changes to the symbol were due to revolutionary leaders believing the symbol was inciting violence among the common citizens. The triumphant battles of Hercules and the overcoming of enemies of the Republic became less prominent. In discussions over what symbol to use for the Seal of the Republic, the image of Hercules was considered but eventually ruled out in favor of Marianne.[30]

    Hercules was on the coin of the Republic. However, this Hercules was not the same image as that of the pre-Terror phases of the Revolution. The new image of Hercules was more domesticated. He appeared more paternal, older, and wiser, rather than the warrior-like images in the early stages of the French Revolution. Unlike his 24-foot statue in the Festival of the Supreme Being, he was now the same size as Liberty and Equality.[30]

    Also the language on the coin with Hercules was very different from the rhetoric of pre-revolutionary depictions. On the coins the words, "uniting Liberty and Equality" were used. This is opposed to the forceful language of early Revolutionary rhetoric and rhetoric of the Bourbon monarchy. By 1798, the Council of Ancients had discussed the "inevitable" change from the problematic image of Hercules, and Hercules was eventually phased out in favor of an even more docile image.[30]
     
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  13. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    I know the coin, great year, there was also one issued in 1849! This is a total guess, AU58, great looking coin! thumbupp.gif
     
  14. 7Jags

    7Jags Well-Known Member

    AU details, cleaned.

    Very attractive design however.
     
  15. MIGuy

    MIGuy Supporter! Supporter

    Here's the reveal! Lol, I believe it was slabbed by a French shop but the grade of "TTB+" gave me a chuckle. Whatever that means. IMG_4147.JPG
     

    Attached Files:

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  16. potty dollar 1878

    potty dollar 1878 Well-Known Member

    o_OWell this is a first.
     
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  17. muhfff

    muhfff Well-Known Member

  18. Cucumbor

    Cucumbor Well-Known Member

    WAC is the worst grading service you could find : misattributions, grades randomly given, and last but not least, slabs you can easily open to replace the coin

    Q
     
  19. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    The slab is a PCCB - which is a cheap Chinese manufactured slab which can be bought online by anyone.

    As far as concerned in an era of counterfeits, a home based slabbing company doesn't have much weight and credibility if there is no real attempt to have anti counterfeit protection. This would have worked 10 years ago, not today.
     
  20. mrbadexample

    mrbadexample Well-Known Member

    Capture.JPG
    I have issues with this, it's nonsense. Since when did the US grading of AU equate to a UK UNC? A US grade of XF is more like a UK VF. We don't use XF either. They've tried to marry the two but it doesn't work like that.
     
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