Learning to Collect

Laziness is overrated.

 

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I totally agree.....but I do think that different people learn in different ways....sure there is a large group of people who post pictures and questions that have no intention of every learning about coins...they just found or inherited something and want to know if they will soon be rich because of it, I think that is the way of our society now.....but I do think that the vast majority of the people on this forum do try to help people with their questions and are pretty kind in the way they do it...I like this forum and have learned alot by reading posts(along with magazines, books, internet articles and whatever else I can get my eyes on.). I am glad I asked the questions I have asked in the past...the people on this forum have opened my eyes up to whole new areas of coin collecting I have missed for the past 20 or so years(when I was too lazy to learn or too busy with other things.)

 

Although it's never a good idea for a new member to argue with an admin but...

For me, it's not a point of being lazy, but rather one of efficiency. A few minutes to post a question and a few minutes to post an answer is less than 15 minutes looking for something that I don't know exists.

 

Truer words were never spoken. Being old I've attempted to hire kids to cut grass, pull weeds, shovel snow, etc. All just either laugh or walk away. No kid in my area would be caught doing anything labor wise for any amount of money. If they want or need money, they just ask thier parents. All high schools have massive parking lots around me. One kid I know that lives about one block from the school parking lot drives to school each day. Our area has been installing play grounds of all kinds in the area and they are all basically just something to look at since they are not used by kids. Why should kids do that when they have all those computer games.

As GDJMSP was saying there is so much junk on the internet that it is really not even safe sometimes for kids to read the wrong thing. Many stories are published without any facts and are just copied from somewhere else.
In schools more and more of them actually require kids to have either calculators or computers. Many schools have computer labs also.

Not to drag out this but at a meeting in an Engineering company working on Nuclear Reactors there was a discussion going on about the spacing of transmission towers. It was agreed to space the first 10 at 100 foot intervals. One recent graduated Electrical Engineer pulled out a calculator and said "I'll get the total distance for you in a second". And that really made me wonder about to much automation in our minds.

 

Try first with searching the forums. Not perfect, but it might help. What is funny is when I google something and the first hit is a post on this forum. Sometimes you learn more by trying first and it helps you remember. Also you might hit on another article or post that interests you.

While I understand Franks rant, some of the quick hit questions do not bother me. I skip some, I answer some - it does increase the participation in the forums. It allows some forum members to answer questions and to feel that they are contributing to the forum. To me this is just a sign of the ages - I mean they teach computers, excel, power point to elemetary students now. Not how to add in your mind - that is why some places close down when they lose power, nobody can add and calculate taxes or simple tracking of things anymore. You have to admit it takes a strong personality at times to dive in and start participating - more honest encouragement can only help this site grow.

I see the same type things on another forum(work related) that I moderate - you get a lot of the same simple questions over and over. What I find most interesting is who answers the questions - over the years it migrates from one set of participants to the next. So now some of the people asking the questions years back are now answering questions. All just my humble opinion.

 

:hammer: I'm guilty as charged, Sir.

I just asked a simple question about Toned Jeffersons in the Introduction section. I never heard of them. How do I research something I didn't know existed? I was under the impression that questions were welcome.
If you know the answers, and you don't care to respond, no problem. If I really want to know, I'll take it a step further. I'm not lazy, I'm just a beginner, who doesn't know where to start. It's all quite overwhelming.
I decided I first need to know the vernacular. So, I am trying to read posts everyday and learn a little something.
I have limited time and finances. I will get a Red Book as soon as possible, but until then, I will just try to absorb as much as possible.

I've got an inherited collection, but I'm not a 'pop-in'. Please give a chance to beginners. I'm sure somebody out there would be willing to answer that same question for the umpteenth time.

Rosethe

 

truthfully, although still used in many grade schools, most libraries use the Library of Congress system now instead

 

They are and so are you!

you're right, calling people lazy isn't going to get you onto their christmas card lists. Fact is that most people look in places like this to do exactly what T$ claimed they were too lazy to do.

In a larger way, I think what T$ is alluding to is that forums like this one are full of opinion (as well as other things :goofer: ) and conjecture. Not exactly what you need when you're trying to quantify things. He directs newbies to completed auction figures as that is a hard fact based source of the status of the market.

We don't usually squawk about it. sometimes we get a bit crusty, but that's human nature in general. If you search the archives here, you'll find that many of the same subjects and same discussion points tend to come and go here. If you are here long enough you see some stuff cycle through a couple of times.

 

Thing is, most people who do ask simple questions are the "pop-in" people. They will start their thread, and put one post on it after the information has been said, and we never hear from them again.
I have NO problem with answering the simple questions, or even the harder ones, that I don't have the answer to. Thing is, if you are just a one time pop-in, and aren't interested about coins, and all you want to do is find out if your morgan dollar is worth millions, I'd suggest that they look it up themselves. Seldom do we get a new collector out of somebody asking questions about a coin they inherited although it happens.
I will give a chance to all new members, but I ain't going to lose sleep over them never coming back again. I will do what I always do, and try to put them in the right direction.

By the way, welcome to Cointalk. Glad you are learning what you can

 

Dewey is employed in the elementary schools and public libraries in my area. LC (Library of Congress) is used in most secondary schools, colleges, and university's where most major research is conducted.

 

I agree. Most people have the answer to their questions at their fingertips; all they have to do is type. They don't even need to find the free online books. If they are on this site, they can use the search function. My guess is that 99% of all questions have been asked and answered before and all one would have to do is find it.

On the flip side, newbies are often very confused and overwhelmed and many are new to forums as well as coins and don't know the capabilities of a forum search. When I see a question that has been asked many times, I like to respond by posting a link to a previous thread in which the same question has already been asked and answered correctly. This way the new member can start to appreciate the value of information in past threads, still gets his question answered, and faces no hostility or embarrassment.

I know that many members get frustrated by the same simple questions being asked over and over again. I have a different frustration. I don't have anyone to discuss coins with outside of the coin forums. I love the hobby and the discussions it sparks. I view simple questions as an opportunity to spark the numismatic fire in a newbie thereby creating another friend who can participate in our discussions.

BTW, Rosethe, feel free to ask as many questions as you want (especially about toned Jeffersons), I will be happy to answer the ones I can.

 

This is a really typical thing that happens with anyone on any forum. If new to such a forum, topic, hobby or almost anything, a biginner is a bit shaky on what to do, how to do it, what to ask, etc. Telling someone to go search for that is rather a sign to most as a signal to go fly a kite or something of that nature. Yes the same questions are asked over and over but it only takes a few minutes to answer with an answer and not a we already covered that last year or ten years ago.
This too is one of the problems with being able to teach. Lack of understanding of a variety of individuals is really detramental in our school systems at times. When asking how to spell a word that old "look it up in a dictionary" is really just a sign of not knowing how to teach. And that is the problem with many questions posted on this and many other types of forums. As some have heard a question repeated by someone that just joined, or is new to the hobby or just unaware of what to do, a response to go look here or there is really a non welcoming statement. Might be full of information, but it still only takes a few minutes to give a little help.

 

It was really difficult to learn about coins back in the days of the dinosaurs. Oh sure, you had the coin papers all the way back to 1960 but a lot of what got into books and print wasn't even true and it's difficult to master concepts if you can't ask questions. Information wasn't widely available and it was much less available for modern coins. You pretty much just had to remember information about newer coins.

 

Being a young numismatist, 18 years old, I have gained 90% of my knowledge from books. The way I see it is that books are mostly written by experts while internet articles and forum posts are by who knows who. Books also include a lot of detail, and I can be pretty certain the information gained in books is true.

 

While I agree with your assessment, I believe it is pretty easy to figure out which members of online forums know their stuff and which ones are full of crap. The problem with books is they are not always unbiased works of information. If you don't believe me, pick up a copy of Weimar White's "Coin Chemistry". He pretty much advocates that every toned coin be dipped white. This is not a practice that is accepted by anyone in the mainstream of the numismatic community. How many collectors that read his book know that he is part of the lunatic fringe before they read it. Nine times out of ten, if you hear a collector say that toning is corrosion/damage, they have read his book.

The beauty of the information on the internet is that you can read, respond, question, debate, ignore, and defend it until you are content. The majority of my numismatic education now comes from online debates with other experience collectors. Even if I still disagree with their opinion at the debates end, I still gain an understanding of the opposing point of view which I consider very valuable information. I can't get that from a book.

I guess what I am trying to say is that every source of information has both value and limitations.

 

Well I will say this much,thank you to everyone who answers questions or posts up links where I can learn from. I love books and have read all my life,not young anymore either. If I have a reference book on the subject then thats where I'll be,but sometimes the lightbulb doesn't shine so bright and a little help understanding something is greatly appeciated from the forum. If I don't have a book or other reference,I generally ask away,I live in BFE,my nearest neighbor is over a mile and a half away and the nearest library is about 20 miles each way,and at times like now when I can't leave the yard because snowdrifts are too big across the roads,the internet is my only contact with the outside world,even when snowstorms don't screw things up gas costs more than the computer to answer a question or two. To everybody that help or at least tries,thank you!

 

IMO, the problem of the actual society is attitude. Real life case (mine):

I do several swaps with Internet collectors, when I started I was clueless about AH dates. I could simply scan the coins and say: "can you tell me what I have here?" I'm sure I'll get an answer in a couple of minutes.
But I don't. I take my Krause and try to identify the country, the date, make the conversion from AH to AD, etc.

Thanks to that attitude, today I can read arab and hebrew numerals. I learned a lot of these countries history and culture.

Of course, I still have a lot to learn, and sometimes I ask questions but to be sincere, books give me more rich answers in almost all cases.

 

A cogent response?

Exactly, and how often do you hear of someone (unbelieveably) mis-quoting someone? But, if you had actually read the original source, you would then know the answer.

1) You'd lose that bet, even on an annual basis.
2 NO! that was not my point at all. Go back and re-read a few of my responses to postings. If you had, you would never have said that.

Thank you, Doug.

My point exactly, try, search and then ask if you can't find the answer.

WHAT!? It is too expensive to buy a book to learn before you buy a coin? Congratulations! That statement merely proves my point once again. Have you never heard Q. David Bowers say: "Buy the book before the coin." I have, and I have also listened.
What is too expensive is buying a coin and then finding out that you have a very expensive lesson in your collection. For example that wonderful rare variety is nothing more than a commonly faked coin. Or what ever.
There is nothing as inexpensive as a book! What is expensive is not having the book.

Then you said: "Some people the expense involved with buying books makes it very difficult for them."
Sorry, but I don't even understand what this sentence means, and I did try to read it.

In a word: YES!

Now that is what I am talking about---
It is okay for us to learn something, and spend time teaching it to you, but not right for you to actually attempt to learn something yourself?


Folks, my simple point: You want to learn (for example) what are the better dates for Barber quarters; or which Barber quarters are undervalued? Could I tell you? Sure, and I could spend a couple of thousand words relating the information to you.

As we frequently see threads that say: Hey, which coins are undervalued? What should I buy?

Well, based upon my thousand or so hours of reading I think that the following is my list of top 20 best buys/most undervalued coins:

guess again!
Why should I spend that time reading, researching, spending money on books, etc, just to relate the info to you?
If you had spent the time researching and asked: What do you think of the 19XX Barber quarter in Fine condition? Should I buy one, if I can find it? I have searched for this coin, and can't find one, does that mean that it is scarcer than its prices seems to make it?

I would be GLAD to answer. In detail.

You had a question, and showed that you actually expended some thought!


However, think about this:
You look up, for example, Lincoln cents, to read about them.

You may accidently read about war time cents, and the fact that there were actually three war composition coins produced. Not just the 1943 steelies.
Think: Did I just look that up? Nope, I remember reading it. When I was researching for info about the 1943 D RPM.

And that is the other side of the story.

 

Well as I see it reading a book or reading a newspaper or reading a forum...it's all readig and learning. Internet is a way more efficient use of time for general stuff.

And yes all those "I inherited @@@" or "I found ###" do get old but this is nothing new.
Coin stores have been getting that question alot for years.

And btw I love rlm's:

In case you have not noticed, in today's society, the rules go;

1: Let someone else do it
2: If not, it is someone else's fault
3: If rules #1 & #2 don't work, the government will give it to you

That has not much to do with coins but a ton of what's wrong with the country!