I’m thinking of buying a safe for my collection and was hoping for some specific feedback on how to keep my coins safe while they are in the safe. Are there specific types that are more likely then others to result in environmental damage? Is humidity the only potential issue, or are there materials that can offgas and leach into a slab? I understand the necessity of desiccant cartridges but am not sure if that is sufficient. I have insurance with Hugh Wood and would need something approved or recommended by them. Perhaps someone has had recent experience with that as well?
I considered a safe after my home was broken into. Be wary of the cheap fireproof safes so frequently marketed to protect one's valuables. They are of insufficient weight to prevent them being hauled off by thieves, and they also usually have thermal insulation in them which tends to absorb moisture on humid days, and then liberate that moisture to the contents of the safe. If I recall correctly, a really good used safe that Hugh Wood would find acceptable should be available for a couple grand. Typically, the cost to move it to your premises will be about half that again. Dessicant packets are a great idea, whether you keep your coins in a safe deposit box, in a safe, or just in your sock drawer. I bought insurance from Hugh Wood after my home was broken into, and I don't believe they will cover environmental damage to your coins if improperly stored.
Don't get a small fire safe for coins. They are not made for coins. As far as off gassing, this is a short list of what can cause problems. Paper, carpet, paint, guns and wood.
This topic has been covered many times. Couple of links are below. Cal https://www.cointalk.com/threads/gun-safe-storage-dehumidification.311425/ https://www.cointalk.com/threads/coin-safe.280892/
There have been a whole lot of threads written about this subject and I suggest you take the time to look them up and read them. And yeah there are dos and don'ts. Some of which have already been mentioned. Do - buy a good quality safe with a good burglary rating and a high fire rating. And it's preferable to buy a safe with a double lock system, one that requires not only the proper combination, but also a key to open it - neither one by itself will open the safe, both are required. Do visit a locksmith shop, talk to them, ask questions, and know what questions you want to ask before you get there. You can buy from the locksmith or you can buy from the manufacturer, but talk to a locksmith before you do either one. Don't - buy one of the cheap safes sold at discount stores. Don't buy a safe with anything but painted metal inside it - no fabric, no liners, no anything but painted metal. Mechanical combination dials vs electronic combination pads. The choice is yours of course but mechanical never fails, electronic depends on batteries, and batteries die. And yeah those selling the electronic will tell you that if the batteries die you can always open the safe with a key. And you can, but if you do then you have negated the advantage of a double lock system - which is only available with mechanical combination systems. There are good manufacturers, so so manufacturers, and bad manufacturers - stick with the good ones. The old saying of you get what you pay for is never more important than when buying a safe. To protect money, you gotta spend money. This is one of the good ones - https://www.amsecusa.com/
Thanks for the recommendation. I spoke with HW Insurance and they want to see a UL rated safe to protect my most valuable items. I called a locksmith in my area and they sell Amsec safes. The one I’m looking at is about 250 lb and 1 1/2 cubic feet. It seems that would be difficult for a potential burglar to walk away with, and is small enough that I could keep humidity away with desiccant packs. If anyone has more feedback on this type of safe specifically please chime in. https://residential.amsecusa.com/product/bfs1512e1/
Might want to get that tapcon'ed from the inside into the floor. 250 pounds is manageable for 2 people, easier than you'd think actually. one run of the mill burglar, will have a tough time with it, a couple guys or one strong dude and the safe is gone in no time at all. I really like securing them to the slab from the inside of the safe so even if they get to it, it's not going anywhere unless the figure out how to release the fasteners from the inside or break the slab enough to release the studs. A different way would be to work in a large flat item like a steel plate to lay flat under the safe that you can get through the doorways sideways to place, then weld the safe to it, they can't get it up because they will be standing on the plate, even if they do figure out how to get it up, they won't get it through the doorways, and if they got the time I guess they'd have to sit there and break the welds to go further. that's for floors that aren't all that rock solid let's say. You could fix the safe from the back to the studs in the wall, but I'm not a fan of that unless you are sure it's not load bearing if someone went at it and tore up the wall. My opinion, consider the value of the items you will keep in it and either get a heavier safe, or figure out a way to make it a fixed safe in the building that would take a long time to remove it' if it's light. Ideally, you'd want it to be pushing 500 pounds or more on it. an "average" adult man weighing 198 pounds with intermediate lifting experience can bench press about 135 pounds, deadlift 335 pounds, and squat 285 pounds. so 500 pounds limits it to a team of two or more. but at 250 pounds it will be difficult of course, but you'd be surprised what one person could do with it with some determination, and it would be gone with 2 people no doubt in my mind.
Part of my goal is to simply meet the requirements of the insurance company which is to have a UL rated safe, period. They are looking at overall risk reduction. You make a good point that a couple of strong dudes could walk off with a 250 pound safe in no time. But it would still exclude burglaries done by a single average sized burglar. It would be good if I could get it bolted to the slab. Not sure how easy that is to do? Do I just need a hammer drill?
You might be surprised that the UL residential burglary protection (RSC rating) means an expert safe-cracker might defeat it in a little over 5 minutes with simple tools (no torches, drills or explosives). However, the burglar would have to be as good as UL’s safe-cracking team, who are the best in the world. The average burglar might not open it at all. And if the safe qualifies you for insurance and you buy it, then you’re covered in the worst case. See the link below. Cal https://www.safeandvaultstore.com/pages/burglary-ratings
Yeah a hammer drill and a masonry bit for the size of the anchor studs after that its hammer the studs home and ratchet down the safe with nuts on the inside. Most safes offer an anchoring kit option though and instructions.
I view this subject from a different perspective. I am not at all in disagreement with a lot of the thoughts and advice posted. I am probably, to an errant psychological norm, a private person concerning what I possess that would be considered value by others, or to members of society that would be interested in stealing the items I possess. I do not share info or photos or lists or conversations, etc. I do not have a "fear" of being robbed, to the level of purchasing safes as a deterrent. I do not discuss the $ value of anything I own. That is the business of my immediate family. I do go to in-depth lengths to insure against as many loss scenarios as possible and available, including Umbrella policies ( I recommend to all, BTW). Any and every Safe can be defeated. Any and every precaution to guard against information disclosure of what a person has that is of value is a self examined due diligence mantra I try to keep forefront in my public exchanges of information. if it is known that a person has a Safe, and is known by the type of personality that will rob a person with a Safe, then logic dictates it may be a prudent choice to not discuss having a Safe, buying a Safe, owning a Safe, methods of preventing the Safe from being removed, etc. It does not make me 'feel" an increased level of comfort if I have a Safe. Remember, I did admit a questionable psychological could exist, before deciding to hit me.
Based on many years of personal experience, I would strongly suggest you go with a larger size. Ya see, like you I started out that way but it wasn't that long before I ended up with 4 safes ! I'd suggest you look at getting one with at least 4 cubic feet of space. Humidity is easily controlled with 2 silica gel packs and you have enough space to allow your collection to grow. And it's almost certainly gonna grow. When considering a safe don't buy the size you need now, buy the size you're probably gonna need 10-15 years from now.
@charley , all sound reasoning to be sure and while not mainstream, it is for sure psychologically normal. I'm a private person also, to a fault, maybe a recluse or antisocial, or introverted,,,, maybe edging towards misanthrope.... a hermit that's just missing his cave on the mountain or out in the deep woods, but that's how I like it. People don't know much about me, even my relatives that I see a couple times a year. This forum is the peak of my socializing LOL. For the most part, with insurance for valuable collectibles, you have to comply with the policy terms of keeping it secure, whatever level that may be, in some cases, this may lower the insurance rate, or it may disqualify you from a claim, let's say if you insured a picasso, and mount it on the wall of the garage and leave the door open. for most collectors, an alarm system is all it really takes to qualify for coverage or a discount for the coverage. It's 2021, I think just about everyone has an alarm on their house and car at this point and if you don't likely you really don't worry at all about someone stealing from you and probably leave doors and windows unlocked also. I wouldn't say a safe makes me more comfortable or less comfortable, but I did come to the conclusion through observations, most people get things stolen from them by people they know, whether it be a friend or a family member and an alarm wouldn't really cut the mustard alone, because in the end, I really don't want to lose my collection (not that it's extremely valuable even) and even the insurance money doesn't make up for that as a "replacement", so deterrents I think are in order, not for me psychologically, but for them, someone that might decide one day "ill never notice something missing" as the pilfering continues to a point that I do say "where's xxxxxx item? I know it was here!" like a kid taking a $5 or $10 from moms purse or as simple as snaking a cookie from the cookie jar. I'm not saying don't trust, but leaving the purse on the counter opened, is inviting temptation also and we all know if they get away once, they will keep doing it because psychologically, that's how most people operate, it's rarely a "one and done" unless of course they clean you out on the first shot. LOL "loose lips sink ships". yeah, I'd agree, the less people know what you got, the less they are likely to come looking for it also.
Thank you. The anti-theft deterrent: My wife answers the door 9 out of 10 times. I ask you, would you enter such an Abode? To commit theft, no less...never mind the immediate nausea and feeling of regurgitation that is the first assault on the visitor....and think you will not leave behind a heck of a lot of physical evidence? Possible side effects are temporary inability to walk, temporary loss of visual acuity, uncontrolled bodily functions. That is when she knows you are a friendly neighbor. Soooo....
Clearly you have built up a tolerance to the effects over the years from prolonged exposure. I feel like the story of Medusa was thought up in this same manner. LOL
