Did I get taken to the cleaners on this penny?

I'm 51 years old....and cleaned pennies with a pencil eraser when I was 10, so I think I know very well what that treatment looks like. My Kodak camera will not capture certain features...and tends to wash out details on coppers, and "in hand" .. this coin looks very different. That's why I'm so insistent....not so much that it hasn't been cleaned, because maybe there's a really old cleaning here....but NOT with a pencil eraser. That leaves scratches that look like somebody used a wire brush. The devices of this coin are smooth and glossy, and the fields are rather gunky....just as most circulated coins that are 152 years old should be...but it's not been harshly abraded.

Nightowl

 

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Is the top of the 7 doubled?

 

I looked at it with a loupe, and there's no doubling. I was looking to see if it was teh variety with the 57 punched into the eagle's neck, but I don't see that feature. Of course, in the pictures of that variety that I've looked at....I don't see it there either.

I picked up a small lot of Indians on eBay for a dollar a coin. There's an 1888 to check for overdate, a 1909 to peruse for mintmark, and an 1864 L that looks to be in fine condition. I spent 15 bucks on those and the '09 is in pretty nice shape too. Those should arrive tomorrow, or maybe thursday.

Nightowl

 

good buy!!

 

You got a decent deal....washed or not. I just bought one of those from a local dealer in EF condition and I paid $45.

 

Why did u pay $34 for a $6.00 coin do u know if its a large or small 1857 date EDITED if u like more info its been cleaned and has rim damage cleaning coins makes them look GREAT but uuuu dododo not not not clean coins cleaning or washing coins de values them. the date are very hard to tell there is a difference in the thickness and some in the hight in the date get a us coin book it tells the difference

 

Reckon I must just be plum simple. I wasn't aware that there was large and small date. I know in the 1858s there's large and small letters....

Nightowl

 

i would not have it graded with any defect not going to increase the value enough to grade it they don not grade coins with any defects they will send it back as non gradeable

 

Most people don't know what to look for to notice if a coin has been cleaned and that is always a matter of experience.

This coin has definitely been cleaned.

There is "dirt" under the eagle, there is dirt that i accumulated between the wing and the where it meets the tail.

There is dirt stuck between the denticles.

There is dirt stuck between the lettering.

These are all signs of an early cleaning as those are the locations where the dirt piles up when a coin is cleaned. They are also the points where the cleaning can not rmove most of the dirt.

There is no doubt that the coin has been cleaned.

So the coin will not grade unless a really poor grader gets the coin.

Thanks,
Bill

 

It's normal only if there is an amount of "accumulated debris" on the rest of the coin that is consistent with the "debris" between the lettering and other devices. Your coinhas the "debris" accumulated in theareas that it accumulates when the coin is cleaned.

Definitely not done with a pencil eraser.

 

Cleaned? Definitely, but still quite nice. As long as you are happy with it, this is all that should matter.

 

there is no large or small date on flying eagles, only the 1857 braided hair large cent

 

Still trying to get better pictures anyway. I found the "flourescent" setting on my camera. This coin looks quite different in hand. The same crowd told me that my 1850 seated dollar was harshly cleaned over and over again....the one NGC slabbed at AU-58, and that I knew had not been cleaned. My camera provides a caricature of some coins, while it does pretty well with others. I don't know what the difference is, but it's frustrating. Santa should bring me a new Nikon....but I don't think it's in the cards.

Nightowl

 

I'll say it again. slabbers slab cleaned coins if they can't tell it has been cleaned. PCGS does it all the time and I'm sure NGC does it too.

There have been recent auctions of expensive, rare coins that are in slabs that are not in the same condition as they were years ago with respect to toning.

Coins that are the same coins that were in slabs in the 1990s and that have been seen in auction catalogs with "pleasing toning" (so pictures exist) mysteriously show up with no toning and they are in new slabs. The coins have the same pedigree so they are the same coin.

The point...coins in slabs can be cleaned but if they are not caught, they get by. I got a proof Liberty nickel past PCGS and I cleaned a big black spot off it with a toothpick and baking soda.

Back to the FE cent. You might even get it slabbed, but it wouldn't be worth the price to do it. The coin is definitely cleaned and better pictures wont change the position of the "dirt" on the coin. It is that dirt that is dead giveaway.

It's still a nice coin but truly experienced eyes know that it was cleaned.

Thanks,
Bill