A Ramble about Dirty Coins

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RickieB

 

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OK what about using Electrolysis? nothing touches the Coin but water.. I know they say use Salt water but I think It would work with distilled water and longer time...

I Did this once.. It removed all kinds of green gunk if I remember correctly..
This was BEFORE I was a collector.. Sorry.. It was a Science experiment..

 

IMO GD is only right about the secrecy when it comes to those who clean coins...they do clean but will not share the info. Most people either don't know (including people trying to give advice) and if they know they wont tell because they are either making money off those who don't know or by typical messed up logic, they think they are saving coins from improper cleaning...Now, of course, if they told you the proper way, that would at least help those who are determined to try but what ever. On the whole though, most people giving advice like this 'all cleaning is harmful' probably havent even test or tried these things, they just dont know. I am no different save I have tried almost every cleaning method I have been able to find information about so if nothing else, I have at least tried what I am talking about first hand.

I wont bicker with anyone about anything here as, in the end, it preference and opinion. Some people will tell you rubbing a coins surface with a very soft cotton cloth will harm metal. I will let that statement stand on its own and let people use their own judgment and common sense regarding such a statement that cotton scratches metal. Some will have you believe that just touching a coins surface will harm it (without doubt if you have dirty greasy hands ). One merely needs to take a penny and rub it with a soft cotton cloth to get your answer as to whether that harms a coin. I have...if someone tells you something as fact, test it out on a cheap coin.

I certainly am not saying one should do anything to a coin that will scratch it up and harm it. But I will not be looking at my coins under 100X or 1000x magnification looking for microscopic scratches either...mainly because I know I will find them because all my coins (save a very small handful) are circulated and old...they will have micro scratches and even some that can be seen with the naked eye. They have been touched and touched again and in peoples pockets and purses.

When I photograph my coins I take them out and lay them on a black cloth...some would say just this act will harm a coin. I have even been told not to talk around a coin as spittle might come out of my mouth and fall on the coin!!I

One guy who seems to have quite the influence has even made the absurd statement that cleaning has NEVER improved a coin...Needless to say, I do not concur and I have seen SO MANY coins improved by just the minimum of cleaning...and by that I mean just a soak in distilled water even. I have seen oil do WONDERS for a grimy an old copper or bronze coin. Remove the oil easily and you have a relatively clean coin. Yes I have even used a very soft bristle brush and thorn to remove crud from inside letters and details. You will see no evidence of it with the naked eye I assure you.

To each is own I say but I have come to the conclusion some time ago that I don't want dirt on my coins...tone...sure...not dirt. Eye appeal is more important to me than micro scratches which are on all circulated coins and are not produced by soft material anyway. Less things mark a coins surface than some would have you believe.

As for Electrolysis, I have used this method on ancient coins but never modern. This method WILL strip patina right off and it just seems far more harsh than most coins need so I have only used in on uncleaned ancients that I have allowed to soak for many months and tried manual cleaning to no avail...then and only then would I use this method...and then I have resigned myself to the idea that a stripped ancient coin is better than one encased is stone.

Electrolysis, if done right, will not pit a coin...the coin cleaned with Electrolysis is often pitted because the layer taken off of the coin (the patina that so many love) is corrosion and has already pitted the coin. I have zapped a coin that had hard deposits on it, the deposits came off with no pitting save where the hard deposit was. I am not saying that it WONT pit a coin if zapped too long, but it wont pit if done right...do light zaps and dont zap it for long each time...dont hook it up and forget about it....take your time, use care. Thats true with everything.

Most often, a good long soak in distilled water will do wonders to an old crusty coin.

 

Traci,
To tell you the truth - the after pic's make the coin look really really bad - in other words...yes, they are "dead".
The before coins were much nicer -

Speedy

 

Thanks guys.. Just a question.. sorry about any huff involved.. I don't clean coin.. I really dont even touch them,, Just wondered about electrolysis since it was not mentioned.

 

I agree with Doug on the cotton cloth.

Copper has hardness of 3, a young human nail about 2.5, gypsum 2, and talc 1. Take a new copper cent and rub it with talc or gypsum powder or "mud", and you will find out for yourself, the surface will look different. Or take a nail cutting and "scratch" the end across the coin.

When cotton fibers dehydrate and age they become more brittle and harder on the microscopic surface. Some of these "microscopic surface tips" can become like thorn tips.

Hardness can vary significantly depending on the orientation of the atoms/molecules in a material. Diamond has a harness of 10, but in actuality, in a single stone, due to the arrangement of the carbon atoms in the crystal, will have a much greater hardness in a different direction. When diamonds are cut, either with cleaving or a diamond blade, the cutter has to determine the plane to cut the diamond, so they don't try to cut a harder layer with common diamond abrasive.

So a cotton fiber can't penetrate into the copper, but it can abrade the surface of the metal.
IMO.

Jim

 

PURE Water is really an insulator.
If the required circuit exists for the electrolysis to work, it is because the water has something in it.

 

I recommend not insulating yourself by standing in a puddle of distilled water while grabbing the hot wire of your home wiring.

 

Sounds harsh.

Sounds harsh and self abusive.

I tend to try to insulate myself in such circumstances.
Nanopure "water" will no longer be nanopure if you stand in it.

Tesla made a decent living by predicting where the electrons wanted to go.

And the last time I submitted to such an experience I was in standing tap water and the main powerline was a 220V.

No thanks for a repeat until I want to electroplate myself.

 

Don't worry about it. This disagreeance has been going on for years.

 

I have to agree with you Speedy.. they have that hideous "i've been cleaned" look those of us who collect MS coins cringe at when we see...

I prefer a circulated coin (if I must) to posess all of its acquired tone and dirt.. signs of character if you will lol

 

Well Speedy and Persian Guy, I appreciate your opines. However, I do not sell coins. So what I do to my property, is my affair. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I like the after much better. Anyway, lets just enjoy the hobby and if someone wants to experiment, its OK. So long as fraud is not involved. GD is right about too much electro or ultrasound, it will destroy a coin. But if done correctly, some may like the results. Traci

 

correct...but you posted it as if to show that cleaning doesn't hurt...but yet your post just proved once again that it does hurt.

True - but do you really want to have your coins lose around 50% of their value, and pass on damaged items to family members when you die? Most people come into coin collecting thinking just like you, but they do that because they don't know, they aren't educated. Read up on the topic - learn WHY people like me say that it isn't a good idea, and I would say you would change your mind.

I'm not trying to be rude here - but that is only because you haven't gotten a GED in coins - I don't know how long you have been collecting, and I really don't care, because your whole post shows that you haven't taken the time to learn the basics of coin collecting. Take time and READ and LEARN about coins before you go and buy anymore coins.

Speedy

 

Ouch..


( I hope saying OUCH doesn't come back to haunt me.. But I think most agree with speedy)

 

Oh I am sure it has,.. since we all run into coins that have been cleaned decades ago.. I wish I had the eye to catch it.. if a coin was cleaned 60 years ago.. its hard for me to tell.. but I know there are those out there that can in a flash..(Speedy).. It takes skill... and more time then I have yet in this collecting.. but someday

 

If conserving or "cleaning" ( or artificially toning or dipping for that matter) can not be detected on a coin, even by the TPG companies, or anyone else accurately, did it really happen?

Coin Zen 101.

 

Yes Butterfly, But
How often does this happen
Hopefully rarely