I had a fraud case where I seem to have exhausted all legal remedies. The story is as follows: I saw an ad in the back classifieds in Coin World. It was an 1875-S $20 Liberty in an old PCGS holder--MS62. The guy sent me a contract with a picture of his driver's license, he's from PA, with an agreement to exchange said coin for $3500, with a free return privalege. I sent him the bank check, he sent me the coin, I returned it and he kept the money. I tried every legal means, talking to him, calling Coin World, finally a few weeks into the scam telling him to return the coin to me. Contacting his police, the Consumer's Affairs departments/AG of our respective states; finally I hired an attorney to pursue the case, we got a judgment in excess of the transaction. I sent the CT AG a copy of the judgment. He's on SSI, so it's going to be hard to enforce the judgment. I stopped by the guys apartment, knocked on his door without success, spoke to a dame and some guys who lived in the building, they said he's a strange dude! I spoke to a Collection Agency, they get 50%. Anyone have some thoughts on how to move forward on this case? :headbang:
Sorry for your trouble. Do you know if the guy still has the coin. You might consider going after it instead of the money. Either way, I'd suggest contacting the postal inspector and getting him involved.
In my state the court system has a website you can look people up. You might want to check how many others have judgments as well. Have you spoke with the DA's office?
Postal Inspectors They have an open case on the issue, with all the relevant information of a legal nature. I suppose they could stop his mail; but what else could they do of a practical nature? I don't know what he did with the coin. When it became apparent the guy was taking the position that he couldn't return my money because he had already spent it on bills, etc., I gave him the names of a couple of dealers who would give him $2600-$2900 for the coin. Soon thereafter, Coin World contacted him and told him to return the coin to me. He just clammed up. :hammer:
Fraud Issue He's not a coin dealer. He ran an ad a couple of times in Coin World, that's all. I did a $29.95 info search on him and found what other judgments there are against him, he had some tax leans in the hundreds of dollars--in total less than $800...
I'm afraid you have a tremendous uphill battle with this situation. The only suggestion I have, is to continue to have your attorney send some certified registered letters to them demanding they release the coin back into your possession or failure to do so could result in a Felony Theft Conviction, as well as Postal Fraud Conviction. Tom.
In this days economic situation, free room, board, medical care better than most, might be an incentive rather than a deterrent. Read where a 70+ dude carrying an oxygen tank robbed a bank of $5000, and went straight to the medical center to pay off his bill. Jim
Careful Combining a collection attempt with threats of criminal prosecution if the debt is not paid can get you in a bunch of trouble. You could be the one with an enforceable judgment against you. Law enforcement will not enforce your judgment for you. They can use the power of the criminal statutes, mail fraud, theft etc., as tools in recovering your monies. Not because you got a judgment, but because the law was broken. Stay after them till they either do what they are required to do or they explain why they do not believe a crime has occured.
Owle, That is a sad situation for you to be in. If he doesn't have the coin, I think you're screwed. The legal system may punish him if you're lucky, but getting your coin back from an indigent criminal is not likely. While I'm not in any way condoning or even suggesting this, a thorough thrashing is in order. Good luck and keep us posted of the outcome. Bruce
I can't share with you how I would handle this. My best advice is to let the system work through its process, and don't let it come to a grinding halt. Call occasionally (don't harass) to check on progress, and let it happen. If you don't get your money back, consider it tuition both in the College of Numismatics, as well as the College of Life.
You say you had an attorney. Have you considered getting your legal advice from him/her? A good lawsuit is like a stool with three legs: A strong provable case that the defendant is liable to the plaintiff Serious enough injury - monetary or otherwise - to justify the time, effort and expense of pursuing it A defendant who is responsive in damages - has either funds, property or insurance which can be seized Remember my friend, no one can sit or stand successfully on a two-legged stool. Getting a judgment is only the first step in collecting a debt. When I retired there was more than $1-million in uncollected judgments in the files, which the bank I worked for would have been glad to sell for $1,000 in cold, hard cash!
An attorney? For a $3,500 transaction? Forgive me, but I do have some experience with attorneys. Any possible profit would be eaten up within the first hour or two.
He does not have to be a dealer to be a member of ANA. You have his name. Contact your District ANA representative and tell your story to them if they confirm he is in fact a member. Also continue with having your attorney or your local DA sending a letter of intent to prosecute him. And yes, since the individual does not reside in your jurisdiction, it is in your best interest to have an attorney assist you. Well wishes. Tom
The lawyer said there is nothing more that can be done. I paid the lawyer $600 to pursue the case against the deadbeat. We have a judgment. The guy is on SSI so apparently his checking account is off limits and he has no known assets. A collection agency will hound him at least. He is not an ANA member. The only people who have real jurisdiction over him are his social worker, who I don't know and the DA. The local police could pursue it as a theft by deception case, but have not chosen to do so.
I did state, multiple times, to do that with the assistance of an attorney. They will cite clearly and correctly all the possible legal ramifications in the strongest possible legal position and make certain the claimant has all the documentation of proof to support his claim for process of recovery and prosecution. Furthermore, I suggested that the OP start getting his attorney notifying his local DA , this will assist in both his local DA and the DA from the state of the seller pursuing all legal attempts at recovery, even at the very least, an order of restitution. Unless I am mistaken, the OP has not exhausted all the possible legal remedies. Please re-read my posts. Thanks. Tom
I am curious, what was it about the coin that made you want to return it? Did you suspect it was a fake?
Coin Fraud My attorney has put the case into an unenforceable file. The defendant sent a copy of his checking account transactions a few months after the coin transaction, showing small transactions, and direct deposit of his "crazy" check. My lawyer sent him a response requesting several months of checking account transactions, he didn't comply. He said he might be a future beneficiary of a class action lawsuit against a drug company. He made an offer of $400 plus $100 a month restitution. I considered that outrageous, considering he had my $3500, plus thousands more when he sold the coin the second time. I made a counter offer of $1000 and $400 a month. He didn't respond.
OP? I'm not familiar with the abbreviation. My DA is my US Attorney? I did send the judgment to CT attorney general. Presumably they will send it to relevant department.
You must remember, " you can't get blood out of a stone" ! I would suggest you reconsider the initial or any counter offer, and make certain that the restitution order is processed through the states Dept. Of Probation. This way, if he fails to make the payments as agreed, he could be automatically sent to jail.
