Cynicism in today's collecting community

I read things here all the time that make me think....and think. Somebody finds a great error coin in a bag of coins and is met with yeah sure...sure you did, buddy...uh huh..

And the guys who live and breathe for the MS69 vs 70 submission game....can't grasp that some of us just don't care. They would never buy a coin off of eBay because it's been "picked over" as though everybody thinks like they do. They are trapped in their own little world, and assume everybody thinks like they do...because it's obviously the "right" way to think.

I have a 1994 world cup gold that I would nearly guarantee is a 70....but I don't care. It will go to the refinery along with everything else when I sell my gold. I have a few others that probably are as well....out of 22 coins, perhaps 3.

I don't think the level of cynicism I see on a daily basis is healthy. These guys who never gamble...will never find that 55 DDO or that MS70 World cup gold for 150 bucks...because they're too cynical or have tunnel vision.

Luck exists....and much of the "luck" you see is of the making of the benefactor.

Nightowl

 

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Found these on the Internet:

"Throw a lucky man in the sea, and he will come up with a fish in his mouth." - Arab Proverb

Luck affects everything; let your hook always be cast. In the stream where you least expect it, there will be fish." - Ovid.

and finally

"If a man who cannot count finds a four-leaf clover, is he lucky?" - Stanislaw J. Lec

 

Cynicism is also present in your own post so it is indeed everywhere!

Cynicism is also present in your own post so it is indeed everywhere!


""can't grasp that some of us just don't care"".
""as though everybody thinks like they do"".
"""They are trapped in their own little world""",
""""it's obviously the "right" way to think"""".
"""""but I don't care. It will go to the refinery along with everything else """""
""""""because they're too cynical or have tunnel vision"""""".

So what were you saying regarding cynicism? Maybe I missed something???

 

I suppose we could all be upbeat with each other about our chances of winning the lottery too. Not much different.

My only problem is when people come on here and act like they're going to win it as long as they buy $30 worth of tickets and never think about the odds.

I think you should go on ebay and buy up every 'unsearched' bag of Wheat cents you find and let us know how it goes.

The point is, you are first taking a risk that the bag is indeed unsearched to begin with! Then you're taking a risk that there would be anything in there. Anybody with a red book who understands numbers will save their time and money. Same goes for searching for silver in circulation anymore. Look at the numbers and save your time.

Its not being cynical. Its being realistic.

 

Touche....Just trying to drive home a point.

There are still deals to be had, and finds to be made. There are folks who will only deal with coin dealers....OK, they can scrap their odds of making a nice find, because that's the coin dealer's business....but from private sellers...there's still a chance. Some folks just want rid of dad's old junk...and that's where the finds are to be made.

Nightowl

 

One point from another thread that is pretty unbelievable.....

"Which means if it was theoretically possible to do, you could throw EVERY 1932-1964 quarter ever made for circulation (32 years worth of quarters) into a pot........
Then throw every 1965 to 1967 quarter (3 years) ever made into the same pot and mix it all up. Now, you get to pick a quarter out, blind folded.
The chances of picking out a silver quarter would be LESS THAN 50%!! That's just having the 65s through 67s mixed in! You would have a 48% chance of picking a silver quarter out of the pile."
​

 

I can give you that.......... if you're meeting someone in person and are able to really see the situation. But when you're buying from some anonymous person on ebay, how would you ever know you're really buying from somebody who doesn't know what they're doing, that's just trying to get rid of dad's old junk? I'm saying it's just another variable thrown in that reduces your chances but fools a lot of people out of their money.

I advocate going after known stuff on ebay. If you know exactly what you're getting, you have much less of a chance of being disappointed and a much better chance of ending up with something that was worth the money. It's just logical. Sellers aren't on ebay to get fooled and make someone else money.

 

No - most(not all) sellers are on ebay to squeeze out more money than things are really worth. The whole key is knowing what you are doing and understanding the risks. I don't mind sellers getting twice what the coin is worth - since someone bid on the auction and thinks the coin is worth that. The ones I dislike are the ones who purposely mis-lead buyers on the coin.

And you have to admit some of the stories are stretched a bit. Especially when they don't want to hear that their 1804 dollar is counterfeit.

 

People who don't know...use the wrong vernacular for starters. They usually will not have more than a few listings of coins...and the rest will be boat motors, hunting magazines...stuff unrelated to numismatics.

One case in point. I bought a lot of half dollars just a wee bit over melt. There were 17 coins, and the 1897 looked pretty nice. There was no mention of mint marks on any of the coins, and there were repeat dates.

I got the lot, and had bought an 1897-S in F-12 for 7.64. It had some scratches on the obverse so I was only able to get $160 for it. I sold the other 16 for what I'd paid for all of them.

There are other examples too. I'm not talking about blind luck. I'm talking about calculated risk that is often mistaken for luck....though luck is one element of the equation. That 97-S could just as easily have been a philly minted one, but I thought it was worth a chance.

Nightowl

 

Almost 100% odds!

So, if I pick out two coins I have almost a 100% Chance! I like those odds:high5:

 

Funny you should mention that. I was in the "open" section not too long ago and there was a fellow there imploring everyone to check out his e-bay auctions which were ending soon. So I did. Didn't like any of the coins he was selling and boat motors and hunting magazines were out of stock but I did manage to pickup a DVD of Hitchcocks "North by Nothwest" from him......

 

Yeah - but you were smart enough to win just over melt. Some people go hog wild on risks.

 

Nope - you still only have a 48% chance of getting silver quarter. Yes - your odds will increase as the mountain of quarters decrease, but the only way to guarantee to get a silver quarter is to take over 52% of the hoard. Just like flipping a coin - it is always a 50-50 chance of getting heads even if you get tails 100 times in a row.

 

.....now let's see some pretty coins.

 

That was a good story. I'll give you credit on that one. I agree, many people simply have no idea about the significance of mintmarks or where to find them. This summer I went to an estate sale and a guy sold me 12 WLH's for $4 a piece. Even then, that was well under melt. One was a 1918-S. Albeit AG. I wasn't even interested in them and was going to leave them behind. I didn't come there for them but he came after me and practically wouldn't let me leave. Maybe because he thought I might be the only one by that would be interested? Who knows? But I wasn't about to pass them up for that. I still have them, with no intent on selling them anytime soon.

No. You better re-read that and let it sink in. That was 32 years worth of silver mintage mixed in with only 3 years of clad, man!!!! Now think about reality and how much silver has been pulled and what's been created since. You're chances now are closer to 0.0001%. Getting worse every year. Every once in a while somebody spends some, creating a fluke, and it is quickly pulled after that.

This seems to be somewhat off topic from what the OP was getting at though.

 

I believe it was Thomas Edison who said "Luck favors the trained observer." Appropo for numismatists, methinks.

 

Regarding the OP: yes, there is much cynicism, but I feel it's less here than the world in general.

 

AHHH, it's that THINKING STUFF that is your problem. Stop that THINKING and you will not notice cynicism.
And if your not looking for a 55 DDO, none of that THINKING STUFF makes no difference anyway. :goofer:
So now back to coins.

 

In the end it doesn't matter what others think about you, the way you collect, etc...

they simply do NOT matter.

Certainly, in everything, you will have people who act like they know it all and act like they are the end all, they will be cynical, they will be critical, they will tell you what you do is not how its supposed to be done. Who cares? why should you care. Not long ago at all I used to bicker with people like this. People who rank themselves and are ranked by others who see it the same as a guru and everything the person says is law.

We are all humans and as such, we are all flawed and in collecting, there is no one set way of doing things. Some my WANT there to be, some might TRY to make it this way but its just not that way. Most of what you hear people say will be opinion...you can either agree or disagree.

In the end, unless you are trying to make a buck and that's all you care about, there is no collecting game you have to play, there are no set rules...as much as someone will try to tell you there are, there just isn't.

Collecting, if indeed you are a collector and not a person trying to make a buck...collecting is subjective and it all depends on personal tastes...if it makes you happy....it doesn't matter what mr. self proclaimed guru says and it doesn't matter what some dude on the internet or at a show thinks, because they don't have any say in how YOU collect...

When you start truly thinking in this way, you wont even need to read half the god awful bickering messes we call threads here. I learned that I simply don't care what others say is the right way to approach cleaning coins, I learned I don't care if collector want to lock every coin away in a slab and play (pay) the grading game. There is nothing new here, no real new ideas being expressed and everyday there is a new thread where people are bickering and rehashing everything they said in 5 other threads with the same title...I don't care...

what I care about is seeing people cool coins, the history, the artwork, and my collection is built only on these criteria...cleaned? I don't care as long as the coin is still attractive...Slabbing? I have better things to do with my money...I collect coins not slabs...When you stop caring what people (who don't matter in the end concerning your collecting) think, the happier you will be. I love my collection and I have put it together with some advice from people who had good advice to offer...I have formed my opinions on how I will collect and what I will collect and I simply don't need anyone telling me I am wrong...how can I be? Its MY collection, not theirs...

Good luck man...if you love coins, don't worry, just collect them, enjoy them the way you want to...easy.

 

Exactly! Thats what makes these forums an interesting place to be. If the above wasn't true, there'd be no reason for collectors to come together to share ideas and thoughts and experiences, because they'd all be the same, and the hobby would be boring, thus probably dead.

Just don't confuse cynicism with advise and guidance. Everyone here could say to heck with it and decide to let people have a go at it with no help at all and more than likely that new person would make a few blunders and quit the hobby in disgust. It's a fine line for those who can't see the difference, and it just may be the difference in how a person pursues a lifelong hobby.
Guy~