Oldest Dolphin Coins

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Keith Twitchell, Apr 28, 2021.

  1. Keith Twitchell

    Keith Twitchell Active Member

    Hi everyone, I'm curious as to when dolphins first appeared on ancient coins. The oldest I've come across is the Thera stater, thought to date from the last quarter of the 6th century BC. Dolphin coins from Taras seem to have debuted shortly thereafter. But if anyone has other, older candidates, I would love to hear about them.
     
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  3. hotwheelsearl

    hotwheelsearl Well-Known Member

    Aren’t the Olbian dolphin shaped coins older?
     
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  4. William F

    William F Well-Known Member

    I believe these Olbian "coins" were 550-300 BC, not exactly coins but they're currency...
    Rc7f1c7afabea60510b98b65299edcf89.jpg
     
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  5. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    The oldest dolphin shaped coins usually are considered the ones with denominations spelled on them. They might be around the same time as Thera. After 50 years or so they stopped putting the denomination.

    Btw @William F , especially the earlier versions of these with OY or APIXO listed as denomination, I do not know why they wouldn't be considered coins. There is no definition a coin has to be round.
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2021
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  6. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    I had heard the opposite, that the earliest ones were the larger, more dolphin-shaped ones, and they became more sardine shaped before they added the legends. Olbia early large dolphin money.jpg Olbia Dolphin inscribed ThY.jpg
     
  7. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    Weird. I believe you heard what you heard, but on average my denomination marked pieces are larger than most. Maybe its a hybrid. I have seen some very large pieces, maybe they were first, then denomination noted ones, and later the smaller, cruder pieces. Your OY piece you should remember was cast, and some "lost their tails" simply by lazy breaking of the casting sprues. They were cast longer, but some were broken when separated.

    I couldn't fathom why they would put the denomination on coins AFTER they had made them for a century or more. You would think you would START with that, and after people knew what they were you could simplify. The history of coinage is basically start big, then slowly steal metal once people are used to the coins - Revolution! - Rinse and repeat. I always know far along a dynasty in china the ruler who minted a cash coin was by how heavy they made their coins.
     
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  8. Keith Twitchell

    Keith Twitchell Active Member

    I definitely would categorize the Olbian issues as coins, agree that round is not in the definition of a coin. But most sources seem to consider them as dating from the 5th century BC (AC Search examples are almost exclusively dated this way), which would make them slightly younger. Anyone got a source that would support the earlier date? And thanks again for jumping in on this.
     
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  9. William F

    William F Well-Known Member

    True... I guess with over 2,000 years of making round coins that's just what I think of when I think coins, Thanks for reminding me to broaden my mindset a little! :) :D
     
  10. romismatist

    romismatist Well-Known Member

    Baletium, a Messapian mint in ancient Calabria whose location is still disputed, had dolphins on their (exceedingly rare) coinage which is dated to the first half of the 5th century BC. However, this is still later than the Thera stater and contemporary with the early issues of Taras, which they imitated.
     
  11. medoraman

    medoraman Supporter! Supporter

    How about Thasos? Their early coinage also featured dolphins.
     
  12. Keith Twitchell

    Keith Twitchell Active Member

    Another good entry! The earliest date I've found assigned to the Thasos coins is 500 BC, while the majority of opinions seems to push that back to mid 5th century. Definitely close if not even with the Tarantine coinage.
     
  13. zumbly

    zumbly Ha'ina 'ia mai ana ka puana

    In Vlasto the early Tarentine stater below is dated to between 525-500 BC, but elsewhere it's been given a later date, circa 480-470 BC.

    Tarentum - Stater Wheel 4 Spokes 4065.JPG CALABRIA, Tarentum
    AR Stater. 7.75g, 17.1mm. CALABRIA, Tarentum, circa 525-500 BC / 480-470 BC. Fischer-Bossert 87 (V45/R58); Vlasto 86-7; HN Italy 833. O: Taras astride dolphin to left; scallop shell below, [TAPAΣ] (retrograde) behind. R: Wheel of four spokes; dolphin within.
     
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  14. Pavlos

    Pavlos You pick out the big men. I'll make them brave!

    Aren't the oldest dolphin coins from Asia Minor during the start of electrum coinage in 650-550 BC? Well before the Thera coinage starting 525/0 BC.

    [​IMG]
    CNG 100, Lot: 1478.
    IONIA, Uncertain. Circa 600-550 BC. EL Hemihekte – Twelfth Stater (7.5mm, 1.16 g). Lydo-Milesian standard. Dolphin left; ornaments (or letters?) around / Incuse square with raised portions on each side. CNG 99, lot 243 var. (same obv. die, slightly different punch); Hauck & Aufhäuser 18, lot 184 var. (same), otherwise unpublished. VF, some die wear on obverse. Extremely rare, apparently the third known of this type.
     
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